unexplained fish deaths

[janderson]

Yup, this is another one of those "help, my fish are dying" threads. So here are the important facts:

Newly cycled (fishless, 3 weeks) 20G

Water parameters as of this morning:
pH: 7.2
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0-5 (did a recommended 50% water change yesterday)

Original fish population (introduced 8/12):
2 male fancy guppies
7 neons
3 spotted cories
1 apple snail

First death: cory, 8/15 - replaced same day
Second death: guppy, 8/16
Third death: neon, 8/17
Fourth death: neon, 8/18

While the cory was obviously sick (not when we frst got him, but Monday morning he had a severe balance problem and Monday afternoon he was gone), the others are fine when we turn the lights off, but every morning we seem to find a dead fish with absolutely no visible sign of injury/disease. :sad:

All fish came from petsmart - did we just manage to get bad fish? I'd understand an outbreak of disease like ich, but they look pristine...

I'm just starting to get worried, there must be some explanation? I thought I did my homework: checked my water report for any problematic additives. cycled the tank with daily doses of liquid ammonia until ammonia and nitrite levels stayed at 0 for a whole week, did a huge water change to bring nitrates down, added dechlorinator, then added compatible fish who eat and swim around just fine - except for the two guppies arguing, but I've addressed that problem in a different thread below. For the record, the guppy that died was the dominant one. Water parameters are checked twice daily and stay at levels described above. What am I missing? I'm so frustrated...

And what should we do now? I know that any new fish should be quarantined for a while before introducing them into a tank, and a small (2.5G) tank to be used for that purpose is all ready, awaiting it's first lodgers. But I'm a bit worried about my bacteria not getting enough food wth less and less fish. Should I add a drop of ammonia every day to keep them alive? Or will that hurt the remaining fish? :help:

Thanks!

 

[zazz]

Don't add drops of ammonia!
Your bacteria will need to multiply a bit each time you add new fish, but its not a big deal,don't worry about it. just add fish onyy one or two at a time and keep an eye on the ammonia levels, changing water as necessary.
also, Id wait untill you have a few weeks with no deaths before buying any new.
Its hard to say whats going wrong with the fish.
I hear that many neons are fairly tender these days. the stress of moving may have been too much for them.
does your temperature saty stable?( not that fluctuating temps should stress a fish to death, but, if it were extreme, i suppose..)
Id just say examine the tanks at the pet store Very carefully before you buy more. resist the urge to buy if you see anything off at all.
good luck.

 

[Kissofthegorami]

It is important to introduce new fish slowly because each new body contributes more waste and the bacteria needs time to multiply to consume the new ammonia/nitrites. The thing about neons and guppies is that both species now tend to be delicate. It depends on the store and the indiviual fish but even in well established tanks they will have neon and guppy die offs when they are first brought home. Guppies have been inbred into oblivion and a once hardy fish has become somewhat of a problem fish. Neons suffer from asian fish farm parentage and you will come accross many inferior and weaker fish that will just die upon introduction into your tank. Cories are actually another fish I have trouble with upon introduction which is odd because they are such a hardy fish. I actually stopped buying cories at petco and petsmart because everytime I do, one or two die withing a day unless they are the indestructable bronze/albino cory. When I buy cories at real fish stores, they do great from the beginning. A lot has to do with the quality of fish you initially purchase. Since your tank is new, make sure u keep testing for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate for the next few weeks and do those weekly water changes.

 

[ashlyjames]

here is an exhaustive checklist.

1) Water quality (you already addressed fish waste issues such as ammonia).
2) Fish health at purchase(you mentioned no visible signs).
3) Water temperature(highly unlikely unless very extreme).
4) Ornaments made from toxic Chemical compounds.(Rocks from backyard..etc)
5) Home made Tank made from Toxic sealant.
6) very Low Oxygen levels.
7) overfeeding/underfeeding.


Hope this helps.

 

[janderson]

zazz, kiss - thanks for your concern. When i started my reasearch of compatible fish I unfortunately never came across the fact that neons and guppies are fragile. Oh well, one more thing learned.

ashleyjames, to address your checklist:

1) Water quality - my test kits (Acquarium Pharm. Master Kit) shows results as above, so i don't think the problem's here
2) Fish health at purchase - seemed perfectly fine at store and during the first few days
3) Water temperature - steady at 78
4) Ornaments made from toxic Chemical compounds. - one piece of fake driftwood from petsmart, rinsed, and one smoth granite boulder, boiled for 15 minutes before putting in tank
5) Home made Tank made from Toxic sealant. - no.
6) very Low Oxygen levels. - 2 airstones in tank, so I don't think so.
7) overfeeding/underfeeding. - the cories get 2 sinking pellets twice a day, the snail likes those, too. The others get tetramin flakes twice a day: 3-4 large flakes, crushed. The flakes are gone within a few minutes. I can't see food sitting around on the floor uneaten, even though ever once a while a piece will end up stuck in a plant for a few hours until someone finds it.
I certainly don't think they're underfed - overfed, maybe? Should I only feed them once a day?

Thanks!

 

[Holly9937]

Any chance of cleaning products or anything like that getting into the tank? could the kids have done anything weird?? You may have just gotten a bad batch of fish, how do you acclimate the fish to the tank?

 

[luvmyfish]

I was wondering the same thing....how did you acclimate them. Guppies are pretty hardy fish, I've never heard of them being fragile.
If I understand correctly these are fish you just purchased less than a week ago, correct?
I would bet these fish were already diseased when you bought them. Dying only 3 days after you got them, shows me more than likely you bought some diseased, or weak fish.
Often these types of fish are kept in overstocked, and less than healthy conditions. I would treat the tank with some kind of med. maybe melafix. Then at least the surviving fish will have more of a chance at survival.
Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

[janderson]

acclimating fish

This is how it went:

1. buy fish

2. put fish bag in small cooler for transport home (20 min)

3. float fish bag in tank for about 20 min to adjust temperature.

4. open bag, add 1/2 cup water, clip to edge of tank, wait 20 minutes

5. open bag, add 3/4 cup water, clip to edge of tank, wait 20 minutes

6. repeat step 5 (effectively doubling initial amount of water in bag)

7. net fish out of bag and put in tank, discard water in bag.

Did I miss something?

On cleaning products - I don't think so. When we bought the tank we cleaned it with a salt scrub and rinsed it very well before filling it for the first time. It hasn't been "cleaned" since except for the gravel vac. Also, wouldn't I see more fish being ill/dead by now? Any environmental poisoning would affect all of them by now, wouldn't it?

About the kids - I doubt that, too. Can't disprove it, of course, but it doesn't seem likely. The older one knows about the danger of introducing foreign stuff into a tank and the younger one doesn't have easy access to it.

 

[Holly9937]

I would lean toward just getting a bad batch then... Are there any other stores around that you could try?? I would wait a week or two before adding anymore fish. This will give you a chance to see if there are any problems with the fish you have, and if you have to shop at the same store it will give them a chance to get some new fish in, or the sick will ones will have hopefully died off by the time you go back. It sounds like you've done everything perfectly. I remember your original emails from setting up the tank, so I wouldn't beat yourself up. Just keep a close eye on the others for problems. I would wait to add any meds until you know if there is something going on

 

[zazz]

zazz, kiss - thanks for your concern.

:thud:
I agree that you seem to be doing a great job.
also recommend against profalactic meds.
Guess id file this under
Stuff happens.