Water Parameters, need help!

KH, or carbonate hardness, is a misnomer. You're actually measuring alkalinity.

In fancy words alkalinity is "the sum of all strong bases in solution less the strong acids".

What this means in the practical sense is that bicarbonate, carbonate, and phosphate are the three main possible contributors to what we refer to as "KH". There are other compounds that may play a role as well, borates and silicates come to mind, but even these are in most circumstances going to be negligible besides the carbonates.

The thing to keep in mind with species contributing to KH is that we measure it by strong acid titration, meaning that the results we get tell us the total amount of H+ needed to completely neutralize the carbonates and phosphates.

What I mean:
Phosphate has 3 negative charges, so one equivalent of PO4 contributes 3 equivalents to KH
Carbonate has 2 negative charges, so each equivalent of CO3 contributes 2 to KH
Bicarbonate has 1, you get the picture.

KH = [bicarbonate] + 2x[carbonate] + 3x [PO4] - [H+]
[x] indicates the concentration of x
The pH-KH-CO2 relationship is tied to this, it assumes that [PO4] is negligible, but this is a little off topic.

In the case of well maintained tanks, PO4 isn't going to be much higher than 1 or 2, for the sake of argument, we can be liberal and even let it stray to 5ppm.

Which, if I'm doing my calculations correctly (have I ever mentioned that I hate "ppm"? ;) ), works out to about 0.15milliequivalents of PO4, or roughly 8ppm KH. My test kit is 10ppm per drop, so yes, I figure that this is measurable, but then, my PO4 doesn't get close to 5ppm!

1ppm of PO4 should result in about 1.7ppm of alkalinity, say 2. Definitely not within the sensitivity of my test kit.
 
happychem said:
KH, or carbonate hardness, is a misnomer. You're actually measuring alkalinity.

In fancy words alkalinity is...

And that's why he's happychem. Ya lost me after the second paragraph, Coach. I'll just take your word for it. :)
 
Wow! Thanks for the explaination!

As for the concern with the GH being zero, I read this from Aquatic Concepts :

If the local GH is too low, it can be raised by adding calcium sulfate and/or magnesium sulfate. This has the drawback of introducing sulfates (SO4--) into the water, so care should be exercised. Calcium carbonate can be used, but it will also raise the KH (this is ideal for the lucky few who have naturally soft water). Various combinations can be used to produce the desired results.

Carbonate hardness can be reduced by boiling the water (impractical for all but the smallest aquariums; let it cool before adding to the tank) or by peat filtering.

Carbonate hardness can be easily increased by adding sodium bicarbonate. Calcium carbonate will increase both KH and GH in equal parts.

One teaspoon (about 6 grams) of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase KH by 4 degrees and will not increase general hardness. Two teaspoons (about 4 grams) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) per 50 liters of water will increase both KH and GH by 4 degrees. Different proportions of each can be used to get the correct KH/GH balance dictated by the fish and plants in the tank. Since it is difficult to accurately measure small quantities of dry chemicals at home, a test kit should be used to verify the actual KH and GH that is achieved.
 
djlen said:
... you'll need to order some Calcium Carbonate to dose as well.
Len

Must be a silly question because I'm asking it: :p

Can't you get Calcium Carbonate from seashells, or perhaps some argonite sand? (A few teaspoons full in a nylon stocking in the filter box)
 
Sorry it took so long to reply... just got my Hagen phosphate test today. I don't understand the results...

tank water >.25 ppm
tap water = .5 ppm

did a 40% water change last night to help with the green water...

tank parameters:

ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 15 ppm
kh - 17 degrees
gh - 6 degrees (got it up there with a tablespoon of epsom salt and 10 ml of calcium carbonate from seachem reef complete)
ph -7.5 (three different tests one AP one Tetra test and whatever strip the lfs uses)

with these results CO2 is around 17ppm, but i still have green water... no phosphates + decent CO2 plus decent lighting = green water

i'm perplexed... still need help

thanx,

jim
 
In theory, the Redfield ratio of nitrate to phosphate should be on the order if 16:1, but most plant tank folk run about 10:1. So, as happychem said, ~1ppm phosphate would be your operating minimum (~15:1), up to 1.5ppm (~10:1).
 
Actually, you are going to have to balance all of your Macros and add Traces to get the good growth you'll need to get rid of the green water.
N=10-15ppm
P=1.0 - 1.5ppm
K=10 - 20ppm
Traces - for your tank - Heavy plant mass - 5 - 7mls./every day - Light mass - 3 - 5mls./every day. Dose no extra Fe at this time.
Test N and P at mid week for content.
How much K you need to dose depends upon your fish load. Light fish load and you can skip dosing K2SO4/KCl. The K in KNO3 will give you enough.
If you are getting N from tap, you don't need to dose N, but need to dose K+ for balance.
Mg and Cal. Carb. should be dosed after every weekly water change and should maintain your parameters.

Len
 
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