Wet/Dry Filters

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Beasts

Beasts
Jan 15, 2007
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I am looking for people who have successfully used a wet/dry filter in a heavily planted high tech tank. If there are any of you out there, I would like to know whether you made any adjustments to the way the filter works in order to lessen CO2 loss. How about the loss of CO2 in the prefilters? Do you maintain positive gas pressure in the filter side of the sump? Does the pump side of your sump collect what I assume to be a protein scum? Have you noticed any detritus accumulation in your aquarium?
My fish are healthy and the plants are pearling a little but the water has never been as clear as I would like. I have quarantine tanks with HOB filters, no CO2 and low light which have crystal clear water.
:read: I look forward to your input.
Beasts
 
I also would be interested. I have relegated my 90G to lightly planted, do to the wet/dry.

If I can move to more heavily planted, that would be great.
 
i had a tetratec pf 150 filter in my 10 gallon planted tank which had 4 amazon sword cuttings, 2 java ferns, 1 anubia, and a few other motley swords. the filter was outstanding. however, the water eveaportaed much faster with it than without. now i know you people are referring to the big tidepool and pro clear aquatics filters, but i thought that i would add my little share of information. yes, the tetratecs are wet/dry, just not in the traditional sense of the word.
 
If you raise the level in the over flow up to about 2-3" below tank level, that will reduce most of it.

The other part is to make sure the wet.dry box is air tight, tape works fine etc.
They should be fairly close to that of a canister at that point.

George, nor myself nor Steve even found any lost using the pH/KH relationship with out calibrated pH meters.............

So correctly set up, they do not off gas CO2 any more than other filters and even if they do a little bit, adding a little bit more CO2, which is very cheap, it's not an issue.

I like them and use them on all larger tanks than 75-80 gal.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Tom,
Just yesterday I spoke to a technical assistant at Marine Depot who assured me that in order for a wet/dry filter to work properly it must have some access to air. In other words, totally sealing the filter side as I have been would defeat the purpose of the bioballs which require an oxygen rich atmosphere to function. He felt that the gases which flow down the drain tubes from the prefilters would be insufficient. While I realize that your experience with planted aquariums is much greater than his, this is the kind of contradiction I am confronted with every time I ask a question. There are a lot of opinions and conclusions from experience but little consistency. I have been told more than once that wet/dry filters need stong access to oxygen but, obviously, you are successful at this hobby?! More serious science would be welcome but the dollars aren't there so...
Beasts
 
Bioballs are redundant in a well planted tank, plants will metabolize most of the ammonia before it ever reaches them. That said there is nothing preventing you from using a wet dry filter. As far as oxygenation, a well tended plant tank will also have a higher level of oxygen then a fish only tank. In fact, many have oxygen levels higher then saturation level (see pearling). Between the more highly oxygenated water and the lower amount of ammonia due to the plants, the demands on a filter are much lower. This means that the loss in filter efficiency due to limiting access to the atmosphere will be unnoticable. (And remember we are limiting access to the atmosphere, not eliminating it.) In this case, Tom's experience with planted tanks and there mechanics exceeds the technical assistant's.

In order to make your tank crystal clear, I'd consider looking at the media and the capacity of your filter.

Hope this helps
 
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Canuck,
The aquarium is 410 gallons. The filter is approximately 75 gallons. The foam that was included with the filter is very coarse. I have tried finer foam for a couple of months but I ended up having to rinse it every 3 to 4 days and the clarity did not improve noticeably. The flow rate is approximately 2500 gph. I think the capacity of the filter should be sufficient. What other media changes would you suggest? Would it be considered "giving up" to use a UV filter? Even using a diatom filter frequently does not result in the clarity I would like. I think a lot of the cloudiness is due to algae.
Beasts
 
Hummm..........a guy at a Marine shop telling you that it must have air to work.......maybe for a marine system........

What do you think wet/drys do?
Exchange gas that's dissolved in the water.
Does the incoming water have gases?

Yes, they do. By sealing the chamber, does that process stop or not?
Obviously it does not stop.

There's CO2, O2 in the water.
If it's a planted tank, then the amount of CO2 will build and redissolve into the water if the chamber is sealed.

If not, then the CO2 will leak out and exchange with the air and diffuse out.
That's what most folks want when using a wet/dry.

Less CO2, more O2.

Not us.

We want to keep the added CO2 and the added O2 from the plants, that also redissolves.

If the levels where just at or less than saturation with the air, then the situation and advice would be correct.

But our CO2 and O2 levels change.
The higher O2 allows the bacteria to process the O2 dependent oxidation of NH4 to NO2/NO3 inside the bioball section.

While well provided for plants also remove the lion's share of NH4, a good bacteria set up makes for a good back up in case you stop adding CO2, or it runs out etc.

For practical matters, a 410 gal tank really needs a sump system.
That keeps all the junk out of the tank and maintains the tank's level etc.

I'd use the top of the line flow iwaski pump. I'd add 2 large Ehiem 2260 canister filters as well or 2 ocean clear canisters. These can have bottom intake bulk heads to clean the detritus on the bottom while most of the water goes over the over flow to the sump.

Note: a well designed sump can help a lot.

I like a pre filter section using bag filters, these are cheap, and micron rated.
They overflow into the sump if clogged which is nice if you forget to clean them.

It makes degassing an issue though, so piping the overflow into the wet/dry section and adding a Ocean clean(probably 2 in this case) post return pump can help and would be a better design.

I'd use some large sponge filters in the sump for bacteria and some coarse mechanical filtration.

So a wet/dry, perhaps a pair of lower intakes for OC canisters to clean any heavier detritus that does not make it over the overflow(you'll thank me later) and then perhaps some post wet/dry OC filters.

I would also highly suggest a bulkhead drain on the bottom, 1.5" PVC, that's hard plumbed to a drain. A cold/hot supply line from the tap with a pre carbon filter for refill also (1/2 or better 3/4" lines)

If you do this, you are looking at about 2 hours per week of maintenance.
Not bad.

Note: do the hard plumbing for a tank this size.
I repeat: do the hard plumbing !!!!!

This is what I typically do for clients with larger tanks.
Jeff Senske also does a similar set up as well.

This allows for rapid easy water changes, removal of sludge from the bottom, you generally work on the tank as it drains and fills, so you need to do large water changes to get into such tanks without going underwater, it's 10X easier to clean them this way.

While you are waiting, you can change CO2 tanks, clean filter sponges, canister cartiages etc, dose etc.

I do a 350 every week this way. I spend no more than maybe 2 hours a week on it.


Regards,
Tom Barr
 
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