What is this war all about ??

[125gJoe]

BTW Emg, great thread and very interesting.

It really IS one of the Greatest Threads (Topics) here, and with these times, the Most Important Thread of All Time.

Momar, on your number 6 --

6) If the Middle East were the most powerful 'nation' on earth, and if it were controlled by Muslim fundamentalists, then extremist pro-democracy groups in the USA would probably go around trying to blow them up.

As you well know, we have the "right" to bear arms. The UK is different in that respect.

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I encourage other FREEDOM LOVING people to copy and print out Emg's Post just like I did and distribute them as Freely as your country will allow!!!

Remember, there are countries that will Not let this happen...


Think.




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[125gJoe]

8) It's all very well saying the USA is in the right in overthrowing Saddam Hussein. But is it really right to then impose a totally alien culture on a region with a tradition of social order dating back thousands of years, with no regard for what this will do for the region? Democracy is not always the right way to do things. You only think it is because you are brought up in a democratic society. (BTW I think democracy's alright)

Did you even see the way Saddam took out his own people in that video when he was first in 'charge'? They went to their deaths because they did not agree with his ideals. ....You never saw that auditorium when they were pulled out to their deaths? You never saw the "human torture shredding machines"?

And, it seems there's a lot of folks that don't understand that we (UK too)enforced the United Nations RESOLUTIONS against Iraq. It's just that simple. Facts are facts.

500 WMD's (7/2006) should have meaning to people that can see the facts.



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[fishcatch22]

america is like me... just because i'm really smart people dislike me for completely arbitrary reasons, just like those extremeists hate america just because we don't confrom to their religious ideals... and the koran does not sponsor bloodshed or killing infedels, it sponsors peace and love, and teaching your fellow man about the love of allah, not killing. these extremeists are just a bunch of nutbags who don't represent the muslim majority.

 

[Ms.Bubbles]

3) Quite frankly, if the USA goes around securing its own interests in a region in which culture and practice are totally different, people in that region and of their world view are going to seek revenge.

Bingo. Do a little research on U.S/ Middle East relations and you'll see a long history in which the US becomes involved in middle eastern affairs almost exclusively for the purposes of their own financial/power gain. In fact, the United States was responsible for TRAINING Osama Bin Laden and his army, back in the days when Osama could be an advantage to the US in fighting some other "evil enemy". This ruse about the US wanting "fairness and democracy" for foreign countries is bunk. They are interested in maintaining their own interests, and are using the concept of democracy as a political smokescreen for their real intentions.

 

[jennypenny]

I think most people would agree that Saddam Hussein was a horrible dictator, and that he deserves (at the very least) to be tried and imprisoned. I hope that Iraq does succeed in becoming a stable and free society. I also feel that we and the other countries (mostly the UK) which joined us in the initial invasion should continue to offer assistance to the country.

However, the argument over weather we should have invaded the country (and how we should continue supporting it) has more to do with our ability to succeed, versus would it be great to have a democratic Iraq (or at least more democratic). Nation building is historically a difficult thing to do. I question weather or not we made a worth-while investment of money, resources, and soldiers by invading Iraq.

Afghanistan is still a dangerous and unstable place. I wish would have concentrated resources there until we could be sure of that countries future. I also question weather Iraq was the country or region that was the most immediate treat to the US.

I do not think we have done all bad. Our humanitarian response in Indonesia after the tidal wave, and other aid (including after earthquakes and other disasters) has done a lot for Islamic people, and in turn for our image.

I also think some other countries can be found at fault. We have seen riots in France and Sweden (Sweden being a country with an especially high standard of living) because of mismanaged Arabic immigration. The immigrants and the European countries both need to work together. Some of these Muslim slums are breeding terrorist.

I do not agree with the statement that this war is all about oil. However, reducing our dependence on the black gold could also be helpful in preventing further conflict.

These are just some of my thoughts. I am not saying that military action is always wrong. I am saying that perhaps the U.S.’s approach to curbing radical Islam is off balance.

 

[125gJoe]

.. They are interested in maintaining their own interests, and are using the concept of democracy as a political smokescreen for their real intentions.

OK...
So, you do believe in the Illuminati.


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[Penfan66]

Bingo. Do a little research on U.S/ Middle East relations and you'll see a long history in which the US becomes involved in middle eastern affairs almost exclusively for the purposes of their own financial/power gain. In fact, the United States was responsible for TRAINING Osama Bin Laden and his army, back in the days when Osama could be an advantage to the US in fighting some other "evil enemy". This ruse about the US wanting "fairness and democracy" for foreign countries is bunk. They are interested in maintaining their own interests, and are using the concept of democracy as a political smokescreen for their real intentions.

Ahem, it was not the US only that created the mess that the Middle East is today. Do some research on the beginings of Israel or the running of Iran in the early 20th century. Some of our friends from the other side o the pond started many of the problems they have today.To blame the US for the state of affairs over there is to miss 100's of years of history and completely short sighted.

 

[DansMarineTank]

Emg --- Thanks so much for posting this so now some will "try" and undertand what is going on in these times. It is a shame that a Hollywood spoof movie can be mentioned in this same post when there are ruthless, sick people that will greatfully cut the heads off of human beings and be proud of that barbaric action. They even put their wives and children in suicide attacks, and use the same to hide behind. No one can say this is not true.

Thanks again Emg -- great post and I hope everyone reads and really takes time to understand it.


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Jo, my point regarding team america was the way the article was written. its incredibly nieve to believe that these terrorist strike because they envy the way of life and freedom, and thats the kind of simple minded oppions that came accross in that spoof film! the whole article strikes me as propaganda!

 

[DansMarineTank]

america is like me... just because i'm really smart people dislike me for completely arbitrary reasons, just like those extremeists hate america just because we don't confrom to their religious ideals... and the koran does not sponsor bloodshed or killing infedels, it sponsors peace and love, and teaching your fellow man about the love of allah, not killing. these extremeists are just a bunch of nutbags who don't represent the muslim majority.

Again, it really has very little to do with the nations success its her foreign policy specifically in the middle east. Not meaning to put you down but that post really does not portray you as "really smart".

 

[DansMarineTank]

Ahem, it was not the US only that created the mess that the Middle East is today. Do some research on the beginings of Israel or the running of Iran in the early 20th century. Some of our friends from the other side o the pond started many of the problems they have today.To blame the US for the state of affairs over there is to miss 100's of years of history and completely short sighted.

Nothing in her post suggested anything to the contrary.