Why do my stemmed plants rot off at the substrate?

Hellbore

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Aug 31, 2010
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Hi, I'm still relatively new to planted aquariums.

I have what I am sure is not an ideal setup for a planted tank. 10 gallon aquarium, with a 15 watt tube-type fluorescent light in the hood, probably only around 5000K I'm guessing but I can check when I get home (looks a little warm for my taste), and the substrate is plain pea-sized aquarium gravel, brownish and coated with epoxy. The substrate thickness is probably close to 2 inches. I had no idea what I was doing when I set all this up initially, or I probably would have tried to set up a more naturally-nutritive substrate, like some of the really nice planted aquariums I have seem have.

My photo period is 10 hours a day, consisting of 5 hours on, 3 hours off, then 5 hours on. Water pH stays around 7.8 lately, and I have somewhat hard water. I have not tested the hardness yet or tested for iron, as I only have the API "master test" kit. I can get additional testing equipment if necessary to figure this out. I do a water change about once a week, though I just had ankle surgery and went about 2 weeks between changes. I treat the new tap water with Prime before adding it. I also dose salt at 1 teaspoon per gallon added at water change. I salt only the amount of water I add in the water change, so if I change out 5 gallons, I dose with 5 teaspoons. Water temperature ranges between about 80 at night, and gets up to maybe 84 during the hottest part of the day.

The tank is currently populated with 3 guppies, 1 molly, 10 small red ramshorn snails, and 10 red cherry shrimp. There also are a couple of damselfly nymphs that somehow got in there, a few pond snails, and I think some tiny cyclops or daphnia or some kind of bug which I can't identify living on the plant leaves, spotted on the Anubias. They are so small i can barely see them but once I find one I can see it moving around on the surface of the leaf, pretty fast.

I used to have brownish and black fuzzy looking algae (maybe some blackbeard too) coating all of my plants making them look sick and dirty, but after I got the snails and shrimp, set up my photo period using a digital timer, and started using fertilizers, the algae seemed to slowly disappear until now there is not much left at all. What is left seems to diminish daily.

I have a small sword in there, a java fern, a small anubias, and 2 "betta bulb" plants of unknown species (unknown to me anyway) that sprouted recently and are growing quickly. All of the above plants seem to take root and stay in the substrate just fine and even are growing and adding leaves.

However, I have had less luck with stemmed plants, namely anacharis, milwort, and one other whose name I forgot that has tiny pink-tinged leaves.

I plant stemmed plants by carefully holding them in my long-handled aquarium planting tweezers/tongs (sold for this purpose) and then pushing them into the substrate maybe an inch or so. When I withdraw the tweezers, the stem is left embedded in the gravel.

Anyway, about the plants. The 3rd one, with the pink leaves, was a disaster. Every single stem I planted ended up rotting off at the level of the substrate and breaking off, floating to the surface and leaving just the rotted black end left in the gravel.

The second worst was the milwort. Most of them turned a darker and darker shade of green until they looked almost purplish, and rotted off at the level of the substrate. However, before that happened, they sent down tiny white thread-like roots from several segments along the length of the stem. However, these roots didn't grab hold of the substrate very well. Once they reach the substrate, most of the roots seem to stop there, as if they don't like the substrate. A couple worked their way in, so the result is, most of these stems are sort of floating, held in place by just a few strands of roots. Oddly enough, there are a few exceptions - A few of the stems are bright green, and thriving, and stay happily where they are in the substrate. I don't know what causes some to do better than others. The bright green, thriving ones seem to all be along the back wall of the aquarium, and moving towards the front, they get darker green and more prone to floating, or resting on the bottom, or being suspended by a few thin roots. Also, segments often break off the darker green plants, and end up floating around the tank and usually get stuck in the filter inlet and have to be removed.

On to the anacharis. Almost all of the anacharis stems also sent down little white roots from various segments along the lower part of the stem. All of the stems look healthy, but about half of them have rotted and broken off at the substrate level. Most of them stay put though because they are either tethered by the roots they sent down, or they are sort of "caught" among the neighboring stems of anacharis that didn't rot off.

Now, I did try to make the gravel more appealing to the plants. I inserted Seachem root tabs even spaced around the gravel, following the package recommendations for quantity (I think 7 or 8 total). Additionally, I mixed some Osmocote into the upper inch or so of the substrate. I also recently started dosing with Seachem Flourish using the EI method. None of the above methods seem to be encouraging the plants to stay in the substrate.

Is the epoxy-coated pea-sized (maybe a bit smaller) gravel just a bad medium for plants to take root in? Should I think about a complete revamp of the aquarium, with a different substrate?

Another thing I wondered is if being low on iron could cause these kind of problems. I seem to have lots of issues with plants "melting", if I'm using the right term. What happens sometimes to my java fern leaves, or anacharis leaves, and even some of the "betta bulb" plant leaves, is they look good one day, then the next day they start to turn more transparent, like they are wilted, and eventually the transparent-looking part rots away or sloughs off. Also, my anubias generally looks really good, but 2 of the leaves suddenly turned yellow overnight, and one of them actually turned half yellow and half brown (crusty looking brown), while the other just turned yellow at the tip. The rest of the anubias leaves are still nice bright green.

Any ideas? Could my melting and substrate-rotting issues be connected? Or is this a bad substrate material?

I would be open to switching to a completely different substrate material in the future, if it would make the plants happy to take root. What I really would like in the foreground would be some kind of low plant that takes root and spreads around like a ground cover. The couple types of small-leaved plants I have tried never would get established or take root into the substrate. What is the best substrate setup for encouraging good plant roots and spreading ground cover?

Also, could the problems have anything to do with not having enough light? Should I try to increase the light to 2 or 3 watts per gallon? Right now I guess I'm at 1.5 watts per gallon with the current setup. I do not dose CO2.

Thanks for any advice you can give!
 
yea he says that he doses seachem ferts to the EI method. If you are doing some variation of the EI method, you MUST do 50% weekly water changes. no ifs ands or butts.

you have any scientific names for these plants, i cant find any info on milwort.

Most likely your lights are the problem. You don't know what it is or the W or the K. Light is very important to plant growth. Not as important as co2 or ferts. but important indeed. Find out what lighting you have. My guess was one of two things when i saw your thread title: 1) improper lighting 2) you are breaking the stem when you are planting.

always freshly trim the stem before planting. When planting gently grab the lower most piece of the stem. Carefully place it in the substrate. If you feel it is hurting the stem, 'dig' a small hole with one hand, hold the stem in place, and the bury the stem plant. do not bother your stem after it has been planted.

also, get the salt out of your tank. IMO, salt is a waste of time and money in a freshwater tank
 
1) nix the salt
2) gravel isn't the best for stem to root into. it can be done though...
3) assuming this is a 10 gal you're light might be a smidge lacking in intensity. sounds like light may not be getting to the bottom of your stems. do you notice the plants that are making it are closest to the light?
4) clean the critters out. damselyfly nymphs are carnivorous afaik. eviction time has come and passed...
5) you MAY have overdosed your root tabs/substrate. stems don't need substrate ferts and for the most part won't use much if any. too much could certainly be burning the stems at the root.
6) you may need more than seachem fluorish. it's best to have all the ferts in the water column... not just what one proprietary bottle gives. if you're already getting everything else from your source water, feeding, leaching from the substrate it should be fine. however, without testing there's no way to be sure. as well there's some things tests just don't cover. you may just want to go with dry ferts and adjust as necessary. whatever you find you don't need you can sell later to make some of your money back.
7) different ground covers do better in different situations. what substrate is necessary would depend on what you want for a ground cover. you can make it work with gravel though. ada a/s would be ideal though.

ugh... covering a lot of ground here. can't focus much more. might get back to this later.
 
yea he says that he doses seachem ferts to the EI method. If you are doing some variation of the EI method, you MUST do 50% weekly water changes. no ifs ands or butts.

I will from now on. I missed a week because of my surgery. I don't have anyone to help me and I physically couldn't do it, I couldn't carry the bucket. As it is I can barely manage it now. I did a water change last night though so they should be good for this week and by next week i should be in better condition.

you have any scientific names for these plants, i cant find any info on milwort.

Wish I did, but Petsmart where I bought it didn't have a scientific name on it either. The tag just called it "Frill". Searching for "Petsmart frill plant" on this forum, I found this post that suggests it might be
Myriophyllum of some sort, water millfoil aka foxtail."
http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2381225
Also saw other forum posts calling it Millfoil and Millwort. Still not a 100% ID I guess, but as close as I can get.

Most likely your lights are the problem. You don't know what it is or the W or the K. Light is very important to plant growth. Not as important as co2 or ferts. but important indeed. Find out what lighting you have.

I do know, as I said in my post, it's a 15 watt 18" fluorescent tube (I left out the 18" part but that's pretty standard for a 10 gallon) with a color temp of about 5000K, or it might be 4600. Isn't that close enough? I just don't remember if it's 4600 or 5000K but that's not a huge difference.

My guess was one of two things when i saw your thread title: 1) improper lighting 2) you are breaking the stem when you are planting.

Hmm... I may have crushed some of the stems while planting and not realized it. My tongs I used to plant the stems are not very good, it's a plastic plant care set they sell at Petco, it's about a 2 foot long plastic wand with little plastic grabber jaws on the end of it. It's hard to tell how much force you are putting on the plant or if it's being crushed.

also, get the salt out of your tank. IMO, salt is a waste of time and money in a freshwater tank

Right away, or should I do it gradually? The fish I have come from a pet store where they lived in salted water, and I thought it was hard on them to change right away to a different salinity than they are used to.

Thanks for the advice as always, I'm learning slowly but surely! The plants already look twice as good as they did when I started asking for advice, but I'm sure there is still lots to improve!
 
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I honestly just use my hands to plant. That way you can be mire confident when handling stems. Hold stems with thumb & middle, dig hole with index, insert stem & scoot gravel to hold stem.

Can you take pics of your plants? This will help with ID.

For foreground, you can get some slate & spread some cut up java moss over, secure with hairnet or netting. The moss will grow up through the net & give a dark green grass look. You can pick it up easily for "haircuts" later if needed. Just be careful early on, water flow (during changes) will send unsecured little moss pieces flying!
 
im having the same problem. i was wondering why my limnophila sessiflora's tops were floating around and when i went to replant to stem it melted in my hand, literally! The top was nice and healthy.

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the light not reaching the bottom, but in a 10 gal tank you dont have much depth to contend with. i was going to go and try root tabs, but im not sure thats the problem.

maybe try spreading each individual stem out a bit so that light can get to the bottom of the stem.
this is what i am going to try.
 
im having the same problem. i was wondering why my limnophila sessiflora's tops were floating around and when i went to replant to stem it melted in my hand, literally! The top was nice and healthy.

I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the light not reaching the bottom, but in a 10 gal tank you dont have much depth to contend with. i was going to go and try root tabs, but im not sure thats the problem.

maybe try spreading each individual stem out a bit so that light can get to the bottom of the stem.
this is what i am going to try.

If you're using the stock lighting, you probably don't have enough light. Walmart sells 10g tank hoods that are fitting for screw-in bulbs. I have that on my 10g and use 2 13w daylight cfl's. 2 9w cfls may work better (I have to scrape my glass fairly frequently and my driftwood is covered with GSA.
 
Our 14G has screw in bulbs and lots of algae grows on the glass that the light is sitting on. What's best alternative to cheap lights that always come with small tanks?
 
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