algae bloom?

[cathy]

hi all, hope you can help. Have kept freshwater aquariums for 20+ years, am now having a go at marine! Did my homework, and I think I have a pretty decent set up for starts. 46 gal, canister filter, plenty of aeration, fluorescent plus actinic light. After adding crushed coral substrate and salt water sp 1.022, let the tank sit for 3 days, then added live rock and 2 damsels. am now a week and a half since adding the fish. Two questions:
1. Algae. am getting brown algae on the glass and the gravel; its not too gross, and does not seem to be interfering with the stuff on the live rock - there is plenty of interest there. problem or just normal maturation? Local pet supply does not sell phosphate test kit; am interested in this. anyone have a good online source? Any other suggestions/comments?
2. ammonia levels. was waiting for that spike to occur, but it has not. Day after fish were added, went from 0 to 0.5, but has stayed the same since! Verified testing by another method. Any comments about what is going on or what i should do?

[OrionGirl]

Phosphate kits are available from most of the online stores--choose a reputable brand. If you had algae problems in FW, and are using the same water source, you may want to get a filter to remove the phosphates.

Brown algae is actually diatoms. Not usually a long term problem, commonly referred to as new tank syndrome. It will wear itself out, but can be ugly. Depending on what setup you're aiming for, you could add some grazers, snails, hermits, crabs, etc.

The addition of live rock (presuambly cured LR) is likely dealing with the ammonia from your fish. A small bio-load can be dealt with easily. Adding to your stock will probably cause some problems--not only with rising ammonia, but with territory. Damsels are fierce fish, and will be very abusive to anything you try to introduce. If you plan on having other fish, I would remove the damsels now. If you do this, you have the chance to fishlessly cycle the tank. This will allow you to stock confident that ammonia spikes won't kill off the new fish.

[cathy]

thanks for getting back to me - I did end up getting a phosphate kit; my levels are testing at 0.1mg. According to the package insert, they should be 0.1 or lower so I guess I am ok; its probably diatoms like you said - normal for a new tank, from what I read here and elsewhere. But I did get some snails to help me keep the house clean!
With our FW tank, which was in the same room, we did not have problems with algae; this room gets a limited amount of sunlight, and we keep the drapes drawn when we're at work. We are regulating the photo period for the tank.

[kreblak]

Brown algae/diatoms are ugly, plain and simple. The good news in that snails should really help you keep everything under control. In a 46 gallon 2 or 3 snails ought to have the algae mowed down in about a week or so. Your phosphates sound fine.

If you really want to eliminate brown algae all together, then start using reverse osmosis water or de-ionized water for your water changes. If you want to avoid their cost, then you can use tap water (treated for chlorine, of course) run through a PUR filter. PUR seems to get out enough of the phosphates that they don't cause problems in my experiance.

[karlas]

your going to get alge. every new marine tank does its part of the process. actually you may get several different types of unwanted alges within at least the first 6 months. this is why they dont consider a marine tank as mature until it hits 6 mths to a year. if you check out some types of fish this is the reason they are listed differently as to when to add them because of the age of the tank. also a new tank until it matures can have many fluctuations in water parameters.when the tank has cycled and you get the alge this is the time you add your clean up crew snails, crabs, det kit (if u decide) and so on.

i see you added fish 3 days after starting your tank. do not add anymore. actually using damsels is considered old school for cycling the best way is to use table shrimp since cycling can ;be very hard on fish. damsels are about the only fish that may live throug a saltwater cylce since its so harsh. keep testing your water your ammonia will spike but with salt it can take up to several weeks to do this. it depends on the tank it could take a couple weeks to over a month. the only way you know the cycle is over is by testing ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. you want amm and trites at 0 since there the toxic part of the cycle. also in salt there twice as toxic as freshwater.

i would let the tank ride and see what happens a week is not long at all at this point. also most of the time (not all) the damsels that do survive the cycle have a habit of becoming very very nasty to anything added later. most damsels should be added last due to there aggressiveness. you should always stock least aggressive first most aggressive last

check out this site


reefkeeping 101 (http://www.reefcorner.com/reef%20keeping_101.htm)

[cathy]

hi, and thanks for the response. I am doing daily testing for ph, ammonia, nitrate and nitrate; weekly for phosphate and calcium hardness. So far since the fish have taken residence (now 2 1/2 weeks) the ammonia has not budged from 0.5. So from your response, can I expect at some point, in the next few weeks, the ammonia will rise a bit more and peak? Then will have nitrites register in my testing?
The algal bloom seems to have stabilized. I did some basic tank cleaning last weekend ( ie rubbed glass with sponge) and although some has returned, certainly not all.

[karlas]

yes when the ammonia peaks thats when the nitrites will start but just give your tank some time and everything will straightent out

[kreblak]

In my experience, ammonia levels rise frighteningly fast for about 8-10 days, and then taper off dramatically. If you plotted the readings on an XY axis, it would look like a rediculously exaggerated bell curve.

The fact that you have had ANY ammonia registering after 2.5 weeks is a cause for concern in my book. Nitrites come after ammonia, and take longer to go away, but I would be making sure that the water was properly oxygenated. Nitrifying bacteria use up far more O2 than fish, and the fact that you still have ammonia seems to point to an underdeveloped bacteria base. Make sure you have adequate water movement at the surface, as this is where gas exchange takes place.

[karlas]

i forgot i had this booked mark its a pretty good grapgh showing whats happening
nit cycle (http://www.epetpals.com/cycle.htm)

[BrianH]

How much live rock did you add? Are you using RO/DI water or tap water treated with ammonia detoxifiers? If you added a good amount of live rock, it may process the ammonia quickly and therefore you will not receive a large ammonia spike. Especially since you only added 2 damsels. If you are treating your tap water with an ammonia detoxifier, you will still get ammonia readings on the tests even though it has been detoxified.

Brian

[cathy]

thanks all for the responses. Brian, we have about 40 pounds of live rock in the tank. It is actually doing very well, has some red, green, and purple plaque algae as well as some other macroalgae, and some polyps! (NOT aiptasia - got rid of one of those!)
When we set up the tank we did not use an ammonia detoxifier, but simply used tap water. The tank sat with just the cleaned crushed coral and the water, filter and heater running, no cover on the tank, for several days before we added anything.
Do you think this amount of live rock carried enough bacteria to keep the ammonia from spiking beyond 0.5? Those little fish are doing their job of pooping! We are also being careful not to overfeed. Do you think if we just patiently sit tight we will start seeing either a further increase in ammonia or some nitrite?
The nitrogen cycle graph is an excellent one; its basically the same graph that was in one of the books I read before we added the live rock and fish.

[BrianH]

Yes, due to the amount of live rock there is a good chance that you will never see a large ammonia spike. I would just wait it out a few more weeks, testing your water, before adding anything else to the tank.

Brian

[cathy]

yes, we were planning on waiting a good while anyways. We have a family trip planned after school gets out so didn't want to add until we come back from that! That also gives me lots of time to research fish species and "easy" invertebrates, but that's fuel for another post....
Not seeing a bigger ammonia spike, due to the live rock, makes sense. But should it still drop to zero at some point, and should I still begin to see some nitrites, which would then drop off, followed by some nitrates? (ie, the rest of the cycle?)

[BrianH]

You may or may not see a rise in nitrites. I started my 50gal reef with 25lbs of fiji from an existing tank and 30lbs of gulf-viwe live rock. I didn't add anything else for a few weeks and I did not experience any "cycle". Since you added live rock, you automaticaly inserted aerobic bacteria into your tank. I don't know where your rock camce from but you probably had a little die-off which caused the small rise in ammonia. Your LR is now processing the ammonia generated by the fish. You may not see a rise in nitrites since the bacteria may have multiplied to the level of converting the nitrites into nitrates. We can't be sure, that is why I would wait a while before adding anything else. You also may want to add some more live rock (6 - 20 lbs) before adding any critters. This would bring your total live rock to 1 - 1.5 lbs per gallon. You could also add cured LR from your LFS as you go along. This way you could pick the pieces you want without experiencing any ammonia spikes.

Brian

[cathy]

I knew we were close, but not quite there, in terms of the amount of live rock!
What you said about there being bacteria already established from the live rock made sense. But if that's the case, then -
a.) at some point, shouldn't my ammonia drop from 0.5 to zero?
b.) if the ammonia is already being converted to nitrites, but I may not see any nitrites because of the action of another species of bacteria, then shouldn't I also at some point start seeing some nitrates register in my testing?
I would hope that at least the ammonia would drop to zero - what do you think I can expect? Thanks for your help.

[BrianH]

It is difficult to predict exactly what will happen in your tank. Was your LR cured? I ask because if it wasn't, then some of the life on the rock was dying off when you placed it in your tank. As for the ammonia, yes you should see it drop to 0 and then see some nitrates. Since your 1st post stated that your getting some algae growth, I think that you are starting to see some nitrate production.
Brian

[cathy]

we got a little bit of a variety. We got some aqua cultured stuff (shipped from Florida) and got it on the day it was delivered. That was our first three pieces. Then we found a better dealer, and got the remainder there; I believe this was cured. It was on this stuff that the polyp and aiptasia showed up, as well as a little bit of bubble algae. (Ihave read that the bubble algae can propagate undesirably, so am keeping my eye on that, but its pretty much status quo right now.)
I guess then, my algae is a good thing as long as it doesn't get out of control. Which, at this point it is not. I guess then what I need to look for as a sign of adequate cycling is the drop in ammonia! Thanks for clarifying the details, this is very useful.