75 plant lighting, plans

[Cypherman]

Hi,

I have a 75 gallon aquarium that I want to turn into a planted community tank. I was wondering what sort of lighting I should be getting. I know 1.5 watts or so is whats recommended, but that means little to me when Im in the store lol. What brand should I be using? What spectrum? Single or double? (Right now I have a single 2x24 in. fluorscent strip...Is there a light brand that will supply the necessary lighting or will I have to get a new strip? If so, what kind?). Plant species desired:

Hygrophilia Tropic Sunset
Cryptocorne retrospiralis
Red Tiger Lotus
Blyxa japonica
Java Moss

Will I need special substrate? Thanks in advance.

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If you care to read my full tank design plans, see below and feel free to comment. The tank will be a medium planted, well populated fish community tank.

The filtration consists of an AC300 and a Magnum 250 Pro system. The planned occupants are:

12 Cardinal tetras
10 Zebra Danios
6 Gold Neon tetras
8 Rummy Nose tetras
10 Celebes Rainbowfish
6 Blue Rams
10 Harlequin Rasboras
6 Glass Catfish
2 Honey Gourami
4 Killies of some type
2 Badis badis
6 Bumblebee gobies
6 Assorted small loaches (zebra, yoyo, etc)
3 Queen Arabesque, other dwarf plecos
Some freshwater shrimps (ghost, wood, etc)
FW Snails of various kinds

Basically I want to create a beautiful community tank. The list is long, yes, but keep in mind all of the above fish barely reach 2 inches, except the Glass catfish.

Not too many plant species, just enough to create a lush, vibrant aquarium. So how does it sound?

[Matak]

Is money no object? If not, go out and by the latest T5 bulbs with electronic ballasts. If on the other hand your on a budget, maybe something DIY is more what your looking for. What kind of bread can you spare?

[Richer]

If your up for a little DIY work, check out www.ahsupply.com . A 2x55 watt light kit would fit your requirements of about 1.5watts/gallon. That site also sells premade enclosures in case you don't want to make one yourself. You want bulbs around the 5000-7000k range. The lower the kelvin range, the more yellow the light will appear. I personally prefer bulbs in the 6700k area.

I currently have a 4x55 watt light kit over my 70 gallon CO2 injected tank. They work like a charm... the customer service was excellent, and the lights were ship fairly quickly (considering I'm up in northern Canada).

HTH
-Richer

[Cypherman]

@ Matak: Money is an object, yes ;) Any ideas for me?

@ Richer: The 48'' enclosure + 2x55 watt light fixtures sounds reasonably priced cept I cant figure out exactly what I need...Also how complicated is it to put one of those systems together? I'm a bit new at it...Thanks for the comments!

[carpguy]

Second Richer's AHSupply recommendation. Very reasonable price, excellent customer service, easy to assemble.

I think you're asking for trouble with the proposed stock list. That is manically overstocked. Aesthetically I think it will look like Grand Central. Biologically I think you'll wind up with sick and stressed out fish and a hard to manage tank. The merits and failings of the inch-per-gallon rule aside, your talking about over 200 inches of fish in a 75. To each their own, but I would seriously rethink the stocking.

I went with a coarse sand and laterite substrate when I set up my 30 and am thinking of switching to flourite or onyx if and when I expand/remodel the setup. These both seem very popular amongst the planted folk. A special substrate isn't required but will probably be helpful in the long run -- its a PITA to switch it out later.

The Hygro, Java Moss, and Crypts will all be OK at low light but the Blyxa and Lotus will both want a good bit more than that. I've got 2.4 wpg and wish I'd gone a bit higher. Most of those plants are slower and smaller as well. You'll want to stock heavy at the start with some fast growing stem plants (like the hygro) to beat back the algae while you're getting established. You can yank them later or just go massively hygro and cut the back when you've got everything clicking. Ambulia grew like a weed when I was setting up and is a nice plant. Plenty of others.

If it were my call, I'd take the extra money from slashing the fish list and put it into higher light and flourite/onyx (depending on your chemistry).

[Cypherman]

Ok, ok...I guess I didnt bother checking my list perfectly...I just listed all of my favorite small fish species heh. K try this:

12 Cardinals
10 Zebras
6 Gold Neons
6 Blue Rams
10 Celebes Rainbowfish
4 Glass Catfish
6 bumblebee gobies
6 assorted small loaches


And I was doing some reading on the blyxia and it does sound like its a bit more trouble than its worth. Can you perhaps recommend a similar looking grassy plant that is less demanding in its habits? I'd rather not have to CO2 inject if I dont have to so I'm keeping the plant density somewhat low; a large stand of the crypt in one corner behind some driftwood, the moss on the wood itself, the lotus in the center with some patches of the grassy plant, and a decent sized stand of the tropica behind some forground rocks.

[plantbrain]

I think you will have issues trying to grow the Blyxa.
Maybe sub that one for another crypt.

Or you'll need better skills with nutrients/CO2 and more light also.

If you want to go non CO2:

Try getting an electronic T-8 ballast from Home Depot etc.
Get a decent reflector and the hard ware and put together 4 x32 watt lighting. This should not cost youm much and give a nice even spread of light.

You can use the 110w PC's but you'll need to bend the reflectors out so they give more spread. But this will be suitable also.

Substrate:
Two general ways to go here(there are more).
I'd opt for the flourite but it'll take a fair amount. Soil is another option. Sand + Prolfile is another.

But you will need around 4 inch depth. The flourite will last and grow the plants great and will be the best of the options.

I add about 1/2" of ground peat moss and lots of vacuumed mulm/detritus from an established tank's gravel bed to the this bottom peat layer. Maybe a 1/2 to 1 gallon of concentrated mulm(the stuff that settles in the bottom of the buckets).

This will seed the substrate well.
Soil works also but new folks often have troubles. And it needs refreshing later on.

Use a single canister, like a Rena, Fluval or Ehiem, about 250-350GPH or so. Pass on the AC.

Feed the fish daily well, add lots of algae eaters, Flagfish, Rosey barbs etc(they will eat the moss though), SAE's, otto cats and shrimps are very good. You will get good use out of these critters, get plenty of them also, don't be cheap on these or the amount of plants you start off with.

No water changes generally, just top off the tanks for evaporation only. If you need to do some pruning and uprooting etc, _then_ do a water change. Typically every 3-6 months.

Plant heavy from the very beginning, add some floating plants, lily, lotus are fine if you let their leaves make it up to the surface, water sprite is easy to deal with, generally I have about 10-25% of the surface covered and 100% of the substrate.


If good plant growth is the goal beyond what you can do here w/o CO2, or if you like those Amano photo's and most of the other tanks you see on the web, CO2 will be a must.
Don't expect it to look the same. There's good reason folks use CO2.
Some of the plants might not do well and not make it, you may need to try and use different plants to fill the voids.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Cypherman]

Thank you PlantBrain. I'm sure you must get questions like this everyday from newbie aquatic plant growers, but I appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions with such detail.

Substrate:
The tank is currently partially set up with a coarse gravel substrate. Should I replace it with sand for better results (hope not as I custom mixed it to create a nice mountain stream look http://www.cichlidtank.com/uploads/photos/2623.jpg BTW the Green Terror will not be part of the setup ) Is laterite a good gravel additive?

Filter:
Will a Magnum 250 or 350 Pro work?

CO2:
I am willing to get CO2 if it will make a drastic difference. Can I use the Coke bottle method or will I have to get a professional one?

Thanks for the advice on the algae eaters. I think Rosy barbs, otto cats, shrimp, and maybe a red tail shark might do the trick...I hadnt even considered them.

[somefinnfishy]

WOW saw your first list I work at a wholesaler with good prices and your talking like $450 in fish.
I'f you want plants spend the $ on lights I regret not buying the nice lights from the get go.
The fish list add some larger fish.Try some other rams bolivions are nice.Congo tetras are my fav in a large planted comunity.
I would also concentrate on one of the many schooling fish you listed mixed schools never look as dramatic as small schooling fish in groups of 20 or more.

[Cypherman]

Haha well...I work at a pet store...I could get all of those fish for around $200, my cost ($450, normal prices tho)...

It was hard enough narrowing it down to the smaller list lol. I thought about Congos (on sale at my store $2.49, come on by :p) , but I was afraid they'd nip at the other fish. Also I just wanted to stick with smaller fish since Ive never tried a small fish community and I want to minimize aggression (smaller fish tend to be less boisterous heh).

[Cypherman]

BTW I noticed your sig...Are you able to get dwarf pencilfish in? I meant to add them but they're always so mad expensive I changed my mind...

[plantbrain]

Congos don't nip.
I've kept them for sometime. They go after eachother, but never cause any damage.
I really would not use laterite. It has little use in a non CO2 tank.

Yes, CO2 will make a huge difference and is the reason why so many folks are hooked on planted tanks. A decent gas tank set up will run about 125$ depending on how and where you get things. But you can T off this tank and add CO2 to as many tanks as you want and the refills run about 10$ once a year for 150-200Gallons of tank.

If you really want to do the plant thing, 220watts of PC's and the CO2 is a good idea.
Get the Flourite from SeaChem, it should not cost you much from the LFS. Do it 100%. Add about the same deal as the non CO2 only a aboiut 4 handfuls of peat and close to the same amount of Mulm. Plant dense from the start and plant heavy.

Also see about getting these 4 things:
KNO3
K2SO4
KH2PO4
Traces(SeaChem Flourish, Tropica Master Grow etc)

Unless your tap water is super soft(GH and KH 3 degrees or less) you will not need much else.

Unlike SW, FW plant tanks are easy to do water changes and re set with nutrients.

This way you can keep a good range of nutrients in the tank all the time and the above chemicals are cheap(except for the traces).

Don't be scared of the CO2. It's the best investment you can make with plants. Flourite is another.

Good lighting is nice but you can do great even with a cheesy shop light and a good CO2/nutrient dosing routine.

Generally: more light means less room for error and the faster the whole system grows.

Like driving, getting in a wreck at 30 mph is not as bad as 60mph.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Cypherman]

Thanks, I think I have just about all the info I need. Three more questions: Is a Magnum 250 Pro adequate for this tank filtration-wise? And what type of CO2 reactor would you recommend for a 75 gallon tank? I'll take a trip over to Home Depot tomorrow and see what I can find. The fixtures seem very cheap, although according to the website, each fixture can only hold one 20 watt (24 in.) or 40 watt (48 in.) bulb, leaving me only room for 80 watts max with a double fixture...What am I missing here? Do the T-8's have a higher output?