What should be in the water

UCF-Planted

UCF-Planted

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Apr 20, 2007
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Orlando, FL
Supposing I'm starting with RO/DI water and a new empty tank, what needs to go in the water to make it stable and a healthy environment for fish and plants?

I know CO2 is appropriate for dropping pH and needed for good plant growth.
What should be added to boost KH and GH (and increase pH)?
Is that all the water needs to be the right environment for the fish, stable pH?

I know that everybody has their own take on ferts, but what's a good starting point, and how do you know how much to add and when?
Flourish (Micro, I know) says to dose every week, but if growth is poor because of another limiting factor then how can you tell how much still needs added? Same with Macros, and is there a good way to get Macros affordably locally?

If somebody feels like taking me under wing and giving me some guidance on what I need to do to setup the ideal situation for the new 38 gallon I'm setting up soon I would really appreciate it.

- Kevin
 
talk to tom barr (plant brain) and rex grigg (rexgrigg.com) for these.. they will both point you in the right direction, and quickly. :)
 
If you're using RO water, you'll need to use something like Seachem's Equilibrum or Barr's gH booster to add calcium and magnesium, which are essential for plants.

Before we discuss ferts and dosing strategy, let's discuss your light level and plant choice.
 
Sounds fair. It's 38 gallons (bought used, but empty and clean) and I just ordered 2 96W CFLs that I will have on timers, 1 on at 10 AM, 2nd on at 12 PM, 1st off at 8 PM, 2nd off at 10 PM. Plants will be, initially, the Java Ferns, unknown Crypt and an unknown Anubias from my current 10 gal planted, but I'm very interested in more exciting faster growing plants. Mostly it's a clean slate. I do have a commitment to put my 2 firemouth cichlids in, but I don't mind if they do a little rearranging, I'll deal with that struggle seperately, and won't mind as long as the plants can rebound quickly.
 
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Whats wrong with using tap water? Unless you are going to be going for acidic water fish theres really no benefit from using RO.

NitrAtes are actually beneficial to a planted aquarium and its not uncommon to have a steady .10 ppm and that is usually the beef with tap water.

Firemouths will constantly be uprooting, go for some plants that have good root structures or can be tied to driftwood, stone etc.

Thats a TON of light, be ready for algae. I would highly recommend going pressurized CO2 if its an option, if not DIY can work also.
 
Forgot to mention my CO2 plans. I'm running DIY on my 10 gal right now, and planning on moving it to the 38 with the plants, and adding a second bottle. I will go pressurized as soon as I can (might be soon rather than later as I have my eye on somebody who I know has a CO2 system they are not currently running.)

I'm not necessarily planning on using RO water, just looking to know what affects the water most significantly that I should watch out for and what to add to get the water where I want it.
 
Ok, so you will have a very high light tank that will require a stable CO2 source and frequent dosing, which is overkill for your initial plant choice but you did mention you wanted more demanding plants.

First off, reduce the light period. You don't need 12hrs of light, especially at that light level. Reduce both down to 8-10 hrs.

CO2 will be very important at this light level, I highly recommend a pressurized CO2 system. Initial investment isn't cheap but it's much more effective and convenient compared to the yeast method.

At that light level, you're going to have to dose almost daily. The method I like to follow is refered to as the "estimative index" or EI method, made popular by Tom Barr (plantbrain). You essentially slightly overdose the ferts to ensure your plants have more than enough nutrients to last through the day. You add the macro nutrients one day then alternate to micros the next, and a water change at the end of the week to prevent the nutrients from building up to a dangerous level. Does the extra nutrients cause algae problems? No, not if you have sufficient plant mass. So start out with alot of plants, don't set everything up and slowly add more plants.

Here are some links to learn more about ferts and dosing strategy:

www.barrreport.com
www.rexgrigg.com
www.aquaticplantnews.com (it costs 4.95 but it's worth it to support a guy who's basically supplied cheap ferts to the majority of the online aquarist community)
www.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilator.php? (fert calculator)
www.aquariumfertilizer.com (where you can buy the ferts)

That said, I think you're starting with too much light. One of the 96w bulbs is sufficient to grow your existing plants and some of the fast growers, even a few colorful ones.
 
I had actually only ordered 1 retrofit to get me started and I planned on adding a second one later, but they didn't have any bulbs in stock less than 10,000K, so they are giving me a second retrofit fixture and free shipping with no bulbs. It does make sense to start with less light until I get the more demanding plants in. I'll probably put the first light in on a 10 hour period and then knock it down to 8 when I add the second bulb, but maintain different start times for the sunrise/sunset affect. Is it worth throwing a "rainstorm" 1 or 2 hour dark period in the middle of the day to enchance growth? or at least let me have light on longer during the time of day I am home?

So it sounds like the reason for the daily dosing is that the amount of nutrients the plants use up in one day is enough to be dangerous if you dosed for the whole week? What happens if you miss a day? Will the plants just slow down their growth for a day, or will I have an instant algea bloom if I miss one dose?
 
A lot of us planted tankers use the Estimative Index(E.I.) of dosing ferts.

Basically what it amounts to is borderline overdosing nutrients(micros & macros) so that they never bottom out and give algae a chance to gain a foothold. 50% waterchanges per week are about par with most, this helps to bring the nutrient levels back down so that when we do dosing again it brings all levels back up to near overdose.Not to say that a overdose cant happen.

With higher light you will know pretty fast when your nutrients are bottoming out and there is a ton of information about getting specifics about which symptoms are associated with what.

Its not like a reef tank that will crash overnight, it starts small and over the course of a few days you will notice something is amiss and there will be time to fix it.
 
Is it worth throwing a "rainstorm" 1 or 2 hour dark period in the middle of the day to enchance growth? or at least let me have light on longer during the time of day I am home?
Click to expand...

Enough people use this method so it seems to work, whether it actually enhances growth is very debatable. I personally don't do it.

So it sounds like the reason for the daily dosing is that the amount of nutrients the plants use up in one day is enough to be dangerous if you dosed for the whole week? What happens if you miss a day? Will the plants just slow down their growth for a day, or will I have an instant algea bloom if I miss one dose?
Click to expand...

Aside from keeping the nutrients at a safe level, you also want to ensure you are keeping the nutrient level at a relatively constant level so it doesn't get used up. Dosing a large amount once a week is much harder to keep a constant level than every other day.

Missing a day of ferts isn't a problem, plants have reserves they can use during slim light or nutrient periods. They'll tell you when things become a problem like growing yellow, curled leaves, pinholes in leaves, etc.

BTW, the recommended dosage by Seachem Flourish is for low light tanks where the nutrient uptake isn't as drastic as a high light one. That's why they also recommend increasing the dosage to match your light requirement.
 
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