Salt with Cichlids?

[dcallen]

Hi,

I have been told that adding some salt to my African Cichlid tank would be beneficial to the fish and their slim coat etc.. If this is true then what type of salt and how much should be added to a 70 gallon tank and with what frequency? I was thinking of adding some of my marine salt, or would the Cichlid recipe be a better choice? Thanks for the input.

[stoopid]

2 tablespoons per 10 gallons to start, 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons of water change... use the evaporated aquarium salts, in such small doses it's not supposed to have any negative effects on the fish but destroys other things in the water. I've added it to my tank water, so far so good.

[JSchmidt]

African cichlids don't need sodium chloride in their water; there is very little in the Rift Lakes from whence they come, so why add it to your water?

Often, cichlid salts are recommended. These have little or no salt in the common sense (i.e., sodium chloride) but the they do have easily dissolving compounds to make the water harder and more alkaline, like the Rift lakes. You can use these or you can make your own if you like to fiddle. There are numerous recipes around for cichlid salts; most include epsom salts and baking soda as principle ingredients to raise GH and KH, respectively. I like to add Aragamilk (ground-up solution of aragonite) to boost KH more permanently.

Do you know the GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness) and pH of your tap water (tested after it has sat out overnight)? Those tests will tell you if you need to add anything.

HTH,
Jim

[dcallen]

Jim,

I don't know what it's at after letting it sit overnight, I'll run a test tonight and see what it's at. The pH in the tank is about 8.0 to 8.2 or so. The KH was at 7 last I checked, I don't remember what the GH was, seems like it was above 10 but I may be way off there. What is the ideal ranges for these, including pH? Also if I get some Cichlids salts like the Seachem product should I wait to introduce it to the tank until my next water change? Thanks again..

[jimbo]

Here's a list of different salts and other compounds which could be used for African Rift lake Cichlids.
http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/salts.html

Jimmy

[JSchmidt]

I'd say your water water is just fine for Rift lake cichlids. You can get some cichlid salts if you want, but I don't think they are necessary.

There is a product made by Kent (I think) called Rift Lake Trace that is a liquid containing many of the trace elements found in the Rift lakes. It doesn't harden the water like the salts do, but adds other stuff found in the Rift lakes that may not be in your water.

My belief is your water is just perfect for these fish and you don't need to add anything.

Good luck,
Jim

[dcallen]

jimbo thanks for that link, it has some good info. Jim thanks so much for your input. Couple of other things come to mind real quickly. First I am starting to notice some green algae on my rocks which I don't want, what is the best way to control this? Can I just basically rub it off with something? And finally how many hours do you leave the lights on in an African tank? Thanks again for all the great help.


-Don..

[JSchmidt]

Algae needs light and nutrients to grow. If you reduce either, it will affect algae growth. I keep my lights on timers -- about 9 hours a day.

That being said, why try to remove the algae? If you have mbuna, they'll graze on it. Even if you don't have mbuna, the algae willl take up ammonia/nitrites/nitrates, which is a good thing.

What sorts of cichlids do you have? Sounds like you're trying to do the best for them...

Jim

[dcallen]

Jim,

Yes I am trying my best to do what I can to make sure they are healthy and happy. I have one Yellow Lab, one Tangerine Tiger, one Red Empress, one Regal Peacock, and one Maleri all juveniles. I don't especially like the way the green algae covers the rocks. I do plan on decreasing the amount of time that I run the lights. Thanks again...

[DavidT]

None of your cichlids are algae eaters but you could get a labeotropheus to help keep the algae at bay but it might cause some problems with the Peacocks or how about a Bristlenose Ancistrus.

David

PS Watch for trouble from the Tangerine and Red Empress, these are both the same species just from a different location in the lake. If you have 2 males they may fight, 1male / 1 female and they will hybidize and if both female will look the same anyway.

[JSchmidt]

Hmmmm.... my yellow labs seem to enjoy grazing on algae... so do most of the Pseudotropheus species I keep. Labeotropheus are good grazers, too, but are far from being the only mbuna that eat algae.

Jim

[dcallen]

Jim,

Thanks..The algae is still in it's initial stages of development it's a light shade of green on most of the rocks. As long as it doesn't get out of control then I think I'll be ok with it. With the fish that I have can you recommend a fish or two that would be compatible with my current fish and also eat the algae? Thanks...


-Don..

[jimbo]

You could consider some Pleco's.
Read this section first
http://www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/pleco_connection.html

[JSchmidt]

I will no longer add plecos to my cichlid tanks. In addition to thinking they don't look right together, many plecos (esp. common plecos) become poor algae grazers as they mature. Also, plecos are big-time poopers, and I get enough of that from the cichlids. I have a hard enough time keeping the water clean without the pleco adding his share...

It is the rare afican cichlid tank that has excessive algae. Many species of Pseudotropheus would work... maybe Ps. scolofi?

Jim

[jimbo]

Jim; like you said before "most mbuna feed on algae"
I just love to see them grazing on it.
That’s exactly why I feed my mbuna’s every other day.
Keeping them hungry will make them grazing on it and keep them from fighting.
But to be honest, they also graze on algae to look for some crustacean.

dcallen; Unless the algae becomes really excessive, read up on the "Redfield Ratio" it's about the relationship between nitrate and phosphate in your tank.

Good luck.

[DavidT]

Originally posted by JSchmidt
Hmmmm.... my yellow labs seem to enjoy grazing on algae... so do most of the Pseudotropheus species I keep. Labeotropheus are good grazers, too, but are far from being the only mbuna that eat algae.

Jim

Jim

I didn't say anything about mbuna not being algae eaters, I was refering to the species of cichlids that he actually has in his tank. He only has one mbuna, the Yellow Lab, and this is an insectivore.

Labeotropheus are the only herbivorous mbuna, all the others do graze on algae but not exclusively.

David

[wayne]

Beware the onset of bright green cyano bacteria 'algae' - not much (anything!) seems to eat it, and it only ever seems to happen in my hardened water tanks. My tap water is 0 KH, 3 GH and I get the sort of algae plecos can chew in that. Can be killed with some bactericides as a last resort though
I don't like to add NaCl to my african tank in any volume at all as people round here seem to think it promotes bloat. Why add stacks of it - it's not very natural, it's got nothing much to do with Calcium hardness. Lets just say noone round here (Norway ) does it and we don't seem to get the same number of bloat problems other people seem to get.

[jimbo]

Originally posted by wayne
My tap water is 0 KH, 3 GH and I get the sort of algae plecos can chew in that.

Hi Wayne,

I wonder what your pH is like. Isn’t it bouncing up and down??
You don't seem to have any buffer-capacity with kH=0.

I thought that bloat is due to, to much protein.
Interesting to know that salt could be a culprit too.
You could be right, but I’ve never heard of it before
One thing is sure, it’s a good opening for a new discussion.

Jimmy

[wayne]

My out the tap pH is about 7.4 to 7.6 depending on how much it's rained. I live on the edge of mountains comprised of ancient shield material so it has almost zero calcium content. Water pretty much rains down, flows downhill into a standing resevoir and into my tap - they also add almost no chlorine unless there's been a dry spell, when Gh also goes up a notch. But kH is always zero, even when they tried to add it to the entire water supply by filtering thro' limestone chips.
I've also a belief in excess protein and general bad care causing bloat in tropheus and mbuna, but I also have a 'bad feeling' about piling in the NaCl. It can't just be protein - for sure many mbuna get bloat, but they're not all obligatory herbivores - animal matter makes up a varying proportion of their diet. For sure poor water conditions will hurt them and weaken them, but mybe adding salt and causing osmotic problems is the 'straw that breaks the camels back'. It's anecdotal, but when I go to shops, auctions and wahtever locally and talk to people bloat doesn't ever seem to be mentioned, and maybe one of the causes is we get different brands of pH, hardness adjustors here.
What about water chemistry - well tropheus are farmed in florida I believe - has anyone ben to, work at or own a farm - what are the water parameters - not the 'ideal tanganikiyan' I would suspect. Agreed, a topic for a new thread....