New tank blues

[Frog]

Ok.i am basically a newbie to tanks.been keeping a 10G since last august while making many mistakes.i have lots of questions for my 2 tanks.my tanks are both setting up cyles since 5-4-03.my newer tank is a 37Gal.both 10 &37 are freshwater tropical.i had too much ammonia in the 37.i started with 4 blk mollies (by suggestion from LFS) and after a week added 3 existing fish(a 3 1/4" bristlenose cat,4 1/2" bristlnose,and 2.5" dwarf gourami..the jerk at the lfs said cycling time is 7 days.i believed him.now i dont.I removed the 4 mollies.i put the gourami by istelf in the 10G tank.the 2 catfish remain in the 37Tank.i tried ammo-lock to help nuetralize ammonia.then was told not good idea.since then, I today did a 12 gallon water change in the 37tank.some ammonia may be nuetralized but still read high.my questions...1. should i do weekly water changes and how much percentage?,2.can my 2 catfish survive a cycling period?(in my opinion they have been thru worse).my aquarium technicals: have had lots of cloudiness,possibly due to bacterial bloom,or ammonia?.I have a emperor280 filter system.150Watt heater.2 pieces of malaysian driftwood for catfish.So far even with all my bad choices,the fish act normal,swim normal and feed normal and look great.Also.feel free to add me to msn messenger or yahoo messeger as i would enjoy talking in real time.Thanks

[wetmanNY]

Don't wait to do water changes. Do them as often as you need to, to dilute the ammonia and nitrite.

Consider going back to the lfs and getting some Bio-Spira to ease the cycling. (I don't mean any or all "bacteria in a can" products).

Which basic book are you using? I like David Boruchowitz, The Simple Guide to Freshwater Aquariums but there are several others.

[ChilDawg]

Amquel is your best bet for removing Ammonia from the water, yet leaving it available for nitrification bacteria.

Water changes are necessary...they don't remove any of the bacteria, but do take the metabolites out of the water.

[glittergirl]

When I had a problem with high Nitrite readings (which may be your next problem) I did a 20-25% water change every day for about a week. The readings eventually came down and are now stable, so I would suggest a similar course of action. I have an air pump and bubbler switched on most of the time, which may have helped my fish survive as it increases the amount of oxygen available for the fish. I'm not sure if this would help you. Others more informed than I could advise better.
Also, I have 2 otos which should not have been in residence while cycling the tank, but they survived OK, hopefully your catfish will survive as well. Everyone told me to be patient and stick with it. Worked for me :)

[ChilDawg]

Originally posted by glittergirl
When I had a problem with high Nitrite readings (which may be your next problem) I did a 20-25% water change every day for about a week. The readings eventually came down and are now stable, so I would suggest a similar course of action.

They came down, not magically, but because the nitrifying bacteria worked their magic and grew a colony to rid the tank of the nitrites!


Originally posted by glittergirl
I have an air pump and bubbler switched on most of the time, which may have helped my fish survive as it increases the amount of oxygen available for the fish.

It did help the fish!


Originally posted by glittergirl
Others more informed than I could advise better.

Not necessarily...more info doesn't signify that we went through it in the same manner as you have...Your experience is always valued more than my reading (unless it was directly contrary to what is in the literature...which your experience is not...it follows the lit on New Tank Syndrome and solutions thereof to a T)

Share the experience, and we'll back you in doing so! :)

frog, when you make it through the cycling process, please share how it worked with those who are in a similar situation!

(But don't advise the fishy cycling thing...we don't do that here, and we'll teach you how to fishlessly cycle the next tank!)

~Matthew

[glittergirl]

Thanks ChilDawg!
I must admit I was a bit nervous about offering my experiences, but nice to know it's valued :)

[Frog]

Yes.ammonia readings were as high as the color chart went.I will follow thru with the water changes.The chemical i use when conditioning tap water is called Prime.by Seachem.Removes choramines,chlorine,ammonia,detoxifies nitrate.nitrites.provides slime coat,essential ions.Originally i used a tap water purifying ion-exchange resin filter thingy.but the cartridges only lasted long enough to filter 14 gallons.but its too expensive for the replacement cartridges.they dont work for the 50-150 gallons that were claimed.If needed i Can hold off using Prime for the tap water and get amquel.but if i'm not mistaken they both do the same thing.just dont want to buy more chemicals if i dont need to.have enough half bottles around.:D

[thom336]

Im not sure if you can get it in the US, but ammolock works wonders at removing ammonia.

Thom.

[demon_surfer]

ii fyou have just the 2 bristlenoses in the 37, it may be better too remove them and then perform a fishless cycle. Would it be possible to put them in your other tank for a week or two? The methods everyone else are telling you will work great but this would probalby be a little easier on your fish.?

If you DO decide to do this then there is a pinned thread on fishless cycling at the top of this page that can give you some tips, or you can post here again for advice ofcourse :D

good luck with your tank..and no worries pretty much everyone does this at the beginning ;)

[ChilDawg]

Originally posted by thom336
Im not sure if you can get it in the US, but ammolock works wonders at removing ammonia.

Thom.

It looks like that's what he is using, Thom, so I'll defer to the use of that if ammonia needs to be locked, but is it left available for the nitrifying bacteria?

[Frog]

Ok.time to update.and thanks so much for replying.amen Bro and sis!
I was using Prime(by seachem).but then i got today Amquell because on the amquell bottle it says it does not disrupt biological process.someone on another site told me not to use ammo-lock and said ammo-lock will slow down the cycling.So bottom line is i used Amquell today.next.My only other tank is also cycling.and it was like 8 days behind the 37G tank.so,bottom line, the 2 catfish stay in the 37 cause its bigger.and the 1 dwarf gourami stays now in the 10G.both tanks are cycling.If you wanna hear the whole crazy story,lol, you'll need to ask on yahoo messenger or msn.P.S. i wasnt able to do a part water change wednesday.but i can on thursday.and i think it would be good to do.based on the average consenus.i think if my catfish survived what went on in the 10 G for 8 months.then they will more than likely get thru this.and yes,after i straighten up on the 10 and 37G tanks,i will need to try a fishless cycle for when i start my 20Gal lobg tank.(listens to readers saying "oh,man is he serious?,maybe he should get the 1st 2 tanks under control").
and yes.it will be a while before i try to do the 20G long.because i dont have all the accessories yet.and i want it to be my frog tank.so it'll have to be done really good and cycled real well,properly.dont want anymore dead frogs.the poor little jumpers.sorry if i talk too much.forgive me.just too much details.

[thom336]

Erm...well...Im not sure about the science behind it, but it says...

- locks up toxic ammonia instantly
- safe for all fish, invertibrates and plants
- can be used with all medications including: methylene blue, malachite green and acriflavine
- neutral solution, will not change pH
- effectiveness and safety proven by university laboratory studies

All I know is it worked for me when all else failed.
Thom.