View Full Version : Piranhas
Innes
05-28-2003, 11:47 AM
OK what are your experiances with piranhas?
do you own any?
if so what species?
I have 2 Red Belly Piranhas "P.Nattereri" (which I know is not a good number)
and they live with some neon tetras and zebra danios, I did have a severum with them for the past year, but recently the agression between it and my piranhas was too much so I seperated them.
ChilDawg
05-28-2003, 11:50 AM
Hi, Innes, and welcome to Aquaria Central. You cannot put pictures in your signature, so that one won't show up...
A little more helpful to those members considering Piranhas would be how large your tank is and whether those fish are merely coexisting until eaten or not.
Innes
05-28-2003, 11:57 AM
well I wouldn't reccomend anyone was to buy 2 RBPs, I would suggest to keep more than 3 to reduce aggression between them, and also the smallest tank size I would reccomend for RBPs is a 55 gallon (USA) were you could keep up to 5 for life.
as for whether my fish are co-exsisting or not, I have had 3 danios for 5+weeks without losing any and I havn't lost a neon for 4+ weeks
these are new additions to my tank and I did lose a few at first, but that could have been any number of reasons and not nessecarly the piranhas having a midnight snack.
but I also only am using cheap fish just incase my piranhas do eat them.
piranha tankmates are not ofter long-term, however it does sometimes happen.
if you were to want to mix piranhas with other fish you would be best with RBPs as they are the least aggressive and terratorial.
you can also mix the pygo species together - but not serras which must be kept alone (with the exception of S.Geyri)
and I have removed the pic from my sig - why cant I post it?
ChilDawg
05-28-2003, 12:00 PM
Nobody here can put pictures in their signatures. Forum rules...the bandwidth cost would be a little excessive.
I was not trying to flame you on those tankmates, but I was pretty interested to hear that they've been making it for so long...P's have a pretty bad reputation, as you've probably figured out!
You must be keeping them well-fed--what is your feeding regimen?
optix
05-28-2003, 12:04 PM
Pirahna's aren't aggressive, they're hungry. and you'll find out just how hungry first time you skip a meal on them :). The tetra's will never be able to forgive you even if they wanted to.
Innes
05-28-2003, 12:19 PM
well to be honest I just feed them when I remember - this is sometimes days apart, but sometimes every day.
and sometimes the piranhas dont even look interested in the food provided, and my severum used to often eat the lot.
Piranhas are just really misunderstood by most people, and especially by fishkeepers who have not had experiance of them.
I guess their reputation is a little over the top, and this could be as many piranha owners want to boast the meanest or most aggressive fish ever!!!!
when in reality it could be taken down by a flowerhorn or a fakata puffer or something like that
optix
05-28-2003, 12:46 PM
here's a post from ScottomacD and I couldn't have said it better myself. This comes from the "meanest fish"thread
"My 2 cents.
The pirahna aggressiveness level has to be one of the most overrated things in aquaria history.
They are pack hunters in the wild and that and only that makes them a danger. No single pirahna will would ever even think of attacking any fish, man, woman, animal etc. that was the same size or bigger. This is a known fact. Yes there are the stories of the fish that goes bonkers then kills and eats a man or cow or whatever by itself. Those are the rarities of life.
I have owned and watched a 6 inch Salvini kill and eat a 11 inch domiant male Texas. In the texas' own tank. Dosen't mean all salvini's are killers. This one just happen to be one special SOB with a serious chip on his perverbial shoulder
I have seen many adult pirahna in tanks my life and not ONE has EVER come up to the glass and challenged me to protect it's terrotory or try and attack or eat me. I am talking about both tank raised and wild. Established or new to the tank. They have turned tail and hid, but never challenged. A true aggressive fish will. Be it african or SA/CA.
All of the fish mentioned so far could (except the previously mention pirahna) fall under the most aggressive fish area. Depends on the fish though. They all have their own personalities."
optix
05-28-2003, 12:48 PM
Just to clear up pirahna aggression before it starts ya know :D
ChilDawg
05-28-2003, 12:51 PM
When you think of the fact that they were evolved from fin-nippers, Piranhas, as ambush predators who're just hungry, aren't that aggressive.
Thanks for sharing the info, Innes!
My cousin had 8 RBP. He got them when they were babies, 3inch long...
he didn't feed them for 4 days and they were going after the smallest piranha.
One water changed killed them all. :(
He bought a Koi as a treat and they ripped that fish apart in 2 mins.
He introduced them with other fishes and they didn't bother the other once as long as they were fed. But when he didn't feed them for a while they killed everything in the tank.
Don't underestimate piranhas either - some are VERY aggressive!!!
I assume that ScottomacD has only ever seen pygo species and has not got too much experiance with piranhas - just a guess though :rolleyes:
piranhas come in 2 main groups Pygocentrus and Serrasalmus.
Pygos are generally less aggressive and shoaling fish
Serras are not social, they are very terratorial and usually the home aquarium is far too small for these fish to live together.
some of these species will attack you or anything placed in their tank - even nets and plastic divers!!!!
These kind of piranhas include S.Elongatus, S.Rhombeus and S.Iritans
and some piranhas are still known for their fin nipping like S.Spilopleura but eventially these fish will kill the fish and not just fin nip
here is a handy link to the PFury factsheets (http://www.piranha-fury.com/forum/pfury/index.php?act=loadpage&f=Piranha-Fury%20Factsheets)
ChilDawg
05-28-2003, 2:10 PM
I think that you have to respect all fish when you put that hand in the tank...at least, if you're hoping to get it back out! :)
Yeah, I always know were my piranhas are when my hand is in the tank - I don't let them anywere near me;)
ChilDawg
05-28-2003, 2:17 PM
A friend of mine is looking into the Natts...would you use the divider method to clean their tank?
not for Natts - but I would keep an eye on them, and be ready to move if they are coming right for you - a net ia sometimes also usefull to keep them away, but a divider is loads of hasstle and I would be reluctant to use one unless I had huge, hungry piranhas in an overcrowded tank.
Natts are great fish, and he may think about getting a yellow natt "ternetzi" ir a piraya or a caribe to add to his shoal - as you can mix these species with good sucsess although many like to keep to one species.
Im not underestimating them. I actually like pirahna's and didn't really know it until the other day when the lady friend said something about keeping pirahna's in our place together once we get it and the reaction I had told me deep down I liked em but never thought I'd be able to have them lol. When she said something about "it being cool to have a big tank with man eating fish" (talking about pirahna's) I felt a big warm fuzzy feeling inside. I still don't see them being aggressive though as I would a jag or any large C/A cichlid for that matter. I just can't see a pirahna BY ITSELF running up and down the tank trying to attack me. No matter the specie's. I would put any species of pirahna in by itself with a jag or dovii and my money is on the cichlid's (unless they are mutated hybrids such as those in the movei :P). Anyway if I ever end up getting pirahna's someday I'll look you up for advice Innes. Just don't know how far along that'd be.
http://aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=86709#post86709
Just saw this over in general chit chat right after posting here lol. can't show this to the girlfriend or my chances of having them will cease to exist :eek: :eek:
ChilDawg
05-29-2003, 4:30 PM
*Cough, Cough*Whipped*Cough*
(You can feed them many other things...mammals don't have to be on the menu.)
net_shark512
05-29-2003, 4:46 PM
Just saw that video. Wow that is crazy. I don't think an agressive Cichlid could do that!! :D
Originally posted by ChilDawg
*Cough, Cough*Whipped*Cough*
Got a problem with that :). We make mutual decision's. Usually the type of thing people do in a relationship ;) if its gonna work besides that what can I say. I love her.
Originally posted by net_shark512
Just saw that video. Wow that is crazy. I don't think an agressive Cichlid could do that!! :D
probably because you can't fit 5 jag's or doviis in the same tank together without them beating the **** out of each other you know, because they don't need their "homie's" to help them out :D
Originally posted by optix
probably because you can't fit 5 jag's or doviis in the same tank together without them beating the **** out of each other you know, because they don't need their "homie's" to help them out :D
well you are underestimating a large serra species if you think a cichlid would prove a problem for it - it really wouldn't
http://home.1asphost.com/jonashansel/site/images/rhombeus_02.jpg
a Rhom like this one would rip up any cichlid - it just takes one bite, and these grow up to 16"
http://home.1asphost.com/jonashansel/site/images/ambrose_001.jpg
although a smaller species growing up to about 8-9" in the home aquarium or 12" in the wild this elongatus can also be deadly and is very aggressive - it will attack your hand, and charge the glass.
*pics taken from the PFury factsheets
also if you like videos - take a look on PFury (link in my sig) as it was started from one mouse video, and since then it has grown to become the largest piranha website on the internet, covering all aspects of piranhas from general care to the science behind them.
but we do have a few feeding videos - and not just piranhas, their is a TSN feeding vid and possibly some others.
Nice. Ok I'll never turn my heart from my beloved cichlids but im being convinced there are some badass pirahna's out there. keep me interested innes you have my attention.
I totally dig the rhom, that thing looks wicked. I would definatly not play around with that lol.
nah nevermind, pirahna's just look too..........ugly I guess. That jaw cracks me up no offense. Never paid this much attention to them before. I'll stick with cichlids. Rather have the grace and poise of a jag over the mutant look any day. And yes im being very biased but aren't we all :D:D Don't get me wrong the rhom does look hideous, but thats all it looks. Hideous
EDIT: ok I just took a glance at your pirahna fury forum and I must say I am disgusted as ****. You mother ****ers are inhumane man. That **** is rediculous. Nevermind lol I don't want to own these things. I know its in their nature to be killing machines but ****. I couldn't believe when I saw somebody with an awesome list of nice jag's and fiesta's only to see ( nice fat feeder waiting for its death) in parathesis :rolleyes: :rolleyes:. **** lol I think im still in shock. I have to say it pissed me off to say the least, but oh well I guess thats how life goes. I'll get over it :p. well dbcb man, I am sorry I ever badgered you about overstocking your tanks. at least you are trying to keep them alive lol, not raising them like livestock to feed to greedy carnivores. I mean I know some of us do the same with our guppies and what not, but at least its one bite the fish is gone, and not tear after tear after tear of torture. I mean some guy posted pics of a mutated jag and koi and was so proud of himself and everyone was chanting it on like yeeeah nice carnage dude hahaha sweet kills. What in the hell man?!?! I don't know maybe im weird but for some reason I can't help but get pissed off inside when I see those things destroying life like that, espeically another mammal.
Take a look at this particular thread with the mutated jag and koi and look at their responses. Im sorry but this type of thing makes me question a persons morality. Or maybe its just me and im just going overboard I don't know.
http://www.piranha-fury.com/forum/pfury/index.php?act=ST&f=5&t=5946&st=0&#entry76733
also please forgive my loose vocabulary, I just had a bad nerve hit :) I apologize.
Innes
05-30-2003, 10:56 AM
I'm really sorry that you don't like what you have seen, but PFury does try to cover all aspects of these fish - and they are aggressive and preditory.
but it is not like that everywere, we have science forums and general help forums also.
optix
05-30-2003, 11:05 AM
Its ok I've calmed down, I was just shocked to see a Nandopsis managuensis (the god send of my being in this hobby) being fed to these vicious things like a **** guppy blew me away. Let alone fellow mammals. I was disgruntled very much so.
Innes
05-30-2003, 11:26 AM
well I guess you now have no doubt that a cichlid is no match for a large piranha.
but it doesn't have to be like that, I have never fed my piranhas live food before, and I have no plans to do so in the future.
so if you do like piranhas don't be put off by this
optix
05-30-2003, 11:33 AM
I now know that a pack of pirahna's destroyed a juvi 6 inch jag. Thats all I know. I know red bellies aren't the "hype" of the pirahna world but I've witnessed 3 6 inchers taken out by a single 12 inch male jag in about a 12 hour time frame. let alone one on one. I don't see it fair putting a poor baby jag in with 6 grown pirahna's. Yet I believe you are right I'd assume that full grown rhom can take out a full grown jag, but I don't see the point in arguing that anymore cause im starting to feel like a child :p sorry I even brought this back up. I'll drop it now.
Grosse Gurke
05-30-2003, 12:15 PM
Actually, I found that thread a little disturbing as well, but not for the same reasons. I just dont like to see things suffer, but to each his own. I have yet to watch any of the videos at piranha-fury, but do not hold judgment on those that do. I will admit that there are people who get into piranhas for reasons I dont agree with, but I do not hold myself in such high regard that I feel the need to trash them or the site they frequent. I think that being an adult entitles me to make decisions on what I will view, and if a thread is entitled
"here is what left......... (Pages 1 2 )
my 5-6" jag, and a 7-8" KOI"
on a site that is dedicated to piranhas.... I think you can make an assumption what you will see if you choose to read that thread. To come back with.....
ok I just took a glance at your piranha fury forum and I must say I am disgusted as ****. You mother ****ers are inhumane man. That **** is rediculous.
is completely uncalled for...IMO.
I keep piranhas because I am fascinated by their behavior and interaction. I think they are a beautiful species. I am lucky enough to keep a few of the rarer types and they are amazing.
Optix, you can obviously do as you please but you may want to take your own advise about piranha-fury and its members.....
Once you see something look deeper
Peace,
GG
optix
05-30-2003, 12:22 PM
Yes I did over react I know and im sorry, but I think some of that was inhumane and immoral. That'd be like me posting a half eaten pirahna on here and saying "look guys my salvini ambushed this pygo and all thats left is its ***" and everyone saying yeah rock on dude thats awesome. I find that a tad just aa taaad bit disturbing correct me if im wrong, then again you don't have to because as you said, my own opinion is just that. I saw something and I did look deeper, and what I saw was a lot of possible disturbed fascinations with destroying innocent life and cheering it on like its a **** sport.
peace:rolleyes:
optix
05-30-2003, 12:27 PM
You know you are right I did let my own dislikes and bothered viewings get to me and I didn't need to lay it out like that, I do sincerely apologize, I do realize everyone has their things and likes and I stepped in and bashed on someone else's personality. I regret that very much. Just not a good day I guess. Again im sorry.
EDIT: GG I just reread your post and realized just how decent it was and wanted to apologize to you directly for flaring up. I realize your intent and it was a mature decent approach that I followed up being rather immature about. My apologies and no hard feelings :)
Grosse Gurke
05-30-2003, 12:40 PM
I do understand your reaction; it is not something I have not encountered before.
What I did find interesting was that you did not get upset at the mouse feeding video in another forum on this site, but got very upset with pictures of the Jag...I think this shows how all of us have our own opinions of what is humane and moral and our personal likes and dislikes guide us to these opinions.
Just an observation.
Peace
GG
optix
05-30-2003, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Grosse Gurke
I do understand your reaction; it is not something I have not encountered before.
What I did find interesting was that you did not get upset at the mouse feeding video in another forum on this site, but got very upset with pictures of the Jag...I think this shows how all of us have our own opinions of what is humane and moral and our personal likes and dislikes guide us to these opinions.
Just an observation.
Peace
GG
Interesting. you are very correct. I did feel a certain disturbance by the mouse thing but it was an excitement that came out by it. Afterwards I was like man those things just demolished a mammal. Then when I saw the Jag like you said a personal opinion sparked and I got pissed. Sorry for my outbursts. I do realize they were totally uncalled for. Kind of feeling ashamed but hey its the internet :p I don't have to get red for ya all.
Grosse Gurke
05-30-2003, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by optix
You know you are right I did let my own dislikes and bothered viewings get to me and I didn't need to lay it out like that, I do sincerely apologize, I do realize everyone has their things and likes and I stepped in and bashed on someone else's personality. I regret that very much. Just not a good day I guess. Again im sorry.
EDIT: GG I just reread your post and realized just how decent it was and wanted to apologize to you directly for flaring up. I realize your intent and it was a mature decent approach that I followed up being rather immature about. My apologies and no hard feelings :)
No apology needed. As you and I have both stated, it is your opinion and I respect that. Just letting you know that not all piranha owners are the same.
If you ever choose to visit piranha-fury again, let me know, it is not as bad as your first experience. There are many members on the site that feel as you do about feeding fish that people keep as pets is horrendous, but there is so much more to the site than a few pictures.
Peace
GG
optix
05-30-2003, 12:56 PM
Originally posted by Grosse Gurke
No apology needed. As you and I have both stated, it is your opinion and I respect that. Just letting you know that not all piranha owners are the same.
If you ever choose to visit piranha-fury again, let me know, it is not as bad as your first experience. There are many members on the site that feel as you do about feeding fish that people keep as pets is horrendous, but there is so much more to the site than a few pictures.
Peace
GG
Will do :). I'll go into with a different approach next time around.
If you do vist PFury again - and I hope that you do - I hope that you will find something that you like:D
and also I hope you realise that not all piranha owners are obsessed with carnage as both me and Grosse Gurke are purely into these fish for the same reasons you like cichlids or whatever it is that you like.
as it happens I am into much more than just piranhas, I love all fish from the mighty arowana to the humble neon tetra and so I also generally avoid the carnage on PFury.
I must also add how reasonable I think you guys here are for listening to what we have to say despite the obvious conflict of opinions:D
good deal innes, definatly glad to have you and grosse on board. Good to have a couple actual pirahna enthusiasts to get info from :):)
Grosse Gurke
06-03-2003, 11:44 AM
Just got back and saw your final post optix and I must say this turned out nicely considering the road it was traveling. If you ever need anything you know where to find me ;) . I will check back in and see if you get any posts about Piranhas because that is what I know.
Shameless Plug..Piranha-Fury, And as you can see, Viewer discression is advised!!! (http://www.piranha-fury.com)
Peace,
GG
OrionGirl
06-03-2003, 11:56 AM
I'm locking this. I really appreciate the fact that everyone has kept level headed about this, and I understand that some people really enjoy seeing the carnage created by a predator doing it's thing. However, the links will remain in place, and interested parties can continue to check them out. I just don't want to see this thread go downhill, and turn into a cheering section for destruction. This is the same reason that the thread in GCC with the rat being attacked was closed.
Please don't think that discussions on piranha keeping are unwelcome--it is clearly a subject that has as many myths and misunderstandings as any other aspect of the hobby, and it is refreshing to see keepers who are interested in, and advocate, keeping these fish for something other than a killer instinct.