Is this reactor too a little too much for my 10gl Hagen CO2 Kit?

[Mantis_22]

Same as topic, I know the hagen reactor is alright. Yet sometimes I hear from people that the bubbles do not get diffused all the way. I seen this reactor online for 24.99$ and thought it would be a little bit better, it has a longer pathway for the CO2 to go into and just looks like it would run better. Heres a pic of it,

http://www.aquatic-store.com/media/co-AM73008.jpg


Any opinions????

[anonapersona]

I think if you shop around you'll find some site that remarks upon the total ramp length of that. something like 28 cm, or 25 inches, I've forgotten. Anyhow, when I read that I measured the ramp length of the Hagen diffuser.... the exact same lenght!

So, the only difference is that the one you are looking at has counterflow of water, or so I recall.

[Timmain42]

Is a CO2 bell out of the question?

http://www.floridadriftwood.com/images/products/Power_reactor.jpg

I use one of these on my planted tank (at the far end from the trickle filter) and the plants just eat it up. I can't tell you how much distance is involved, but the bubbles get smashed into 'dust' and spread outward from the sponge very, VERY quickly.

[nanahachi]

not to sound like an idiot, but Timmain42, where can i find that diffuser? what is the brand/model number?

are you using it with DIY yeast CO2 or pressurized?

Mantis, I am wondering the exact same thing as you, I'm glad you posed your question. Thanks

[Timmain42]

Just call me Timm.

I found that piece of equip. on the FloridaDriftwood.Com site under 'CO2 Equip." I use pressurized CO2, but at a rate far less than I originally anticipated (go figure).

http://www.floridadriftwood.com/product.asp?0=217&1=253&3=147

[Mantis_22]

1. I am going to start using the Hagen Nutrafin CO2 System Kit Friday, thats why I'm asking about the reactor. As for that reactor Timman posted I can use that but whats its better advantages. Im am using this on a lightly soon to be moderate planted tank.

[Timmain42]

I guess the advantage would be that the CO2's exposure to/and introduction into the water column is very long. It's hard to describe, but the gas doesn't follow a path and hope to be absorbed into the water, it is broken into tiny chunks by the powerhead on top of the bell, and continually rebroken until the bubbles are small enough to pass through the sponge.

Basically, I'm saying that CO2 doesn't escape the bell until it is of a useful size. It almost looks like smoke, coming out from under the bell.

[punch]

That size is a little big for your tank. I think it's rated for up to
120 gal or something. The qqua botanic store has a real small little reactor. Its not on there web site but you can give a call
Its called a vortex mini reactor.

[Mantis_22]

well im needing a very effected CO2 reactor. Otherwise im just going to use the hagen and hope for the best.

[anonapersona]

Before you go assuming that the Hagen diffuser won't be enough, you need to try it. Be sure to test your pH and KH before and after.


People seem to get all out of whack because they can see a bit of a bubble left at the end of the hagen ramp. If you'll pull out the old math books and find the volume of a sphere calculations (or go here (http://www.abe.msstate.edu/~fto/tools/vol/sphere.html) and run through what happens to the volume as the diameter goes from 4 to 1, for example, you'll see that you are getting really high diffusion, even though you can still see the bubble, actually 98% of it is gone. I don't know why folks get so peeved at 2% being left, if the starting bubble was smaller and it was reduced to 2% it would look like.... smoke, if you could see it at all.


I have Hagens and DIY vortex reactors. Given the same filter, they seem to do about the same, sometimes the Hagen gave a lower pH, sometimes the vortex. The Hagen would waste gas if a DIY bottle gave bubbles that were too large (double bubbles) while the vortex rarely wasted that. I do see large bubbles escape the DIY vortex from time to time, but I think that is my poor sponge choice at fault. The Hagen bottle never gives double bubbles.

If you find that you don't have the CO2 levels that you want, you may find that you are actually more limited by the CO2 that your filter blows off, assuming it is a HOB filter, than the efficency of the Hagen diffuser. When starting out, do start with the middle or upper settings for the depth of the input line on the Hagen diffuser. Depending on your water, it is possible to overdose. Test the water before you lower the line to a deeper level.

[Robert H]

I thougt the Hagen system had its own reactor. The reactor you picture is called the Reactor 500 and is made by Aqua Medic. Its the same size as the other one pictured which is called the Power reactor and is made by Plantguild. The Reactor 500 requires you to attach a small power head with a tube connector that does not come with it. The force of the pump drives the C02 bubble down the spiral and out the bottom. The Power reactor includes a pump and creates a jetstream inside the reactor which breaks the bubble til it dissolves in the sponge.

[Mantis_22]

I know, im just asking if it would work....

[anonapersona]

I suspect that you will be limited by the total length of the reactor plus the pump or powerhead providing the flow. Besides that, it is probably too much for a 10 gallon anyhow.

[Mantis_22]

dont worry, im designing a whole new system for a reactor. Its a two-stage reactor.

[anonapersona]

Before you go very far in designing a super duper reactor, it is important that you know how much CO2 you are getting now with the Hagen system. I've seen posts from people who have gottten 22 ppm CO2 with a Hagen unit, and I've seen posts from people who go beyond that into unsafe territory and find their fish belly up in the morning.

See the chart at Aquabotanic CO2 chart at Aquabotanic (http://www.aquabotanic.com/charts.htm) and find out if you can even tolerate a higher rate or more efficient reactor.

As I said, I found that the limiting factor in my tanks was really the filter, the HOB filters limited the CO2 to 15ppm, no matter what I put in, any more was blown off by agitation.

[Mantis_22]

dont worry i have very soft water, along with a KH of 2 and PH of 7.3. And thats in my tank. Its exactly the same from the tap too...
I will try Hagen for the first few weeks. If slow results im going for a power head...

[anonapersona]

KH of 2... you could be into a danger zone with the Hagen, don't even think of a power reactor just yet.

Take a look at that chart, will you? It is quite likely that you will get a 1.0 drop or better in your pH. (I got 0.8 and I have a starting pH of 8.2 and KH of 9.0.)

That puts you right on the edge of the danger zone, if your pH goes below 6.3 you're risking killing your fish.

Then, if any of the standard aquarium processes lower your KH (which happens as the fish breathe and the waste decays -- so it will occur) your KH will go lower, the CO2 tips into the danger zone, at the same time the buffer is exhausted and the pH plunges, frying your fish in the acidity.

Think about this. Find out how to raise that KH to at least 3 or maybe more if you are going to add CO2. You're going to have to monitor this.

[Robert H]

Mantis, I don't think you are getting it. Soft water and C02 is not a good match. Its better to have hard water if you are adding C02.

[Mantis_22]

I understand that. I know by adding the CO2 my PH is gonna drop along with my KH which will be dangerous. I have crushed coral on hand as of right now so should I add about half a teaspoon to a little bag and let it set in my filter then add the CO2 kit or should I add the CO2 kit today and while PPM levels are low and getting started add crushed coral to bring the KH up along with the PH so I'm not in those danger zones?

[Mantis_22]

I just got the hagen a sec ago and all the parts are spread out along and setup in the tank, I just need to start it up with the ingrediants? Should I start it now? and add half of teaspoon of crushed coral to keep the new CO2 in balance?

[tricksterpup]

Actually you should be fine if you use the Hagan system as is. I wouldnt alter it. I have it on 3 seperate tanks, and it does wonders on all 3 of them. I am actually pretty impressed with it. The bubbles do get smaller and then at the end it floats to the top. I am not really to worried about the end of the bubble. If you follow the instructions, then you shouldnt have a problem with your 10. It turned my 15 tall into a virtual jungle. I am having i have to go in and prune my fox tail after being in there after a 2 week period. So I wouldnt go fancy and trying to upgrade something that works very nicely. Just keep an eye on it for a 2 -3 week period. if you dont have your results, then i would either return it, send a complaint to hagan, or modify it then.
jim

[Mantis_22]

Ok i'll try my best with it in it. But the first drop I have of PH im either dropping 1/8 teaspoon of baking soda or adding crushed coral :D

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by Timmain42
Is a CO2 bell out of the question?

http://www.floridadriftwood.com/images/products/Power_reactor.jpg

I use one of these on my planted tank (at the far end from the trickle filter) and the plants just eat it up. .....

I have the same one and think it works great!

[125gJoe]

Here's how it works...
http://www.floridadriftwood.com/images/products/Co2reactor-diagram.jpg

[aquatic-store]

You could also use an atomize, the smallest of all co2 products and take as much space as a half dollar. I don't have a pic on my website but if youneed one let me know as i just started carrying them

marc Russo
http://www.Aquatic-store.com

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by aquatic-store
You could also use an atomize, the smallest of all co2 products and take as much space as a half dollar. ...
I'd really like to see a good pic of that!
100% diffusion in that small of a space?

:confused:

[aquatic-store]

Didnt say 100% now. Basically a ceramic disc that the co2 is pushed through. It makes tiny bubble that ARE visable. I like to have them my spray bar circulate water over them to increase diffussion

marc Russo
http://www.Aquatic-store.com