Phosphates/Cheleted Iron Issue

[RothChyld]

I have a slight green hair algae problem and I want to stop it before it gets out of hand. Someone told me it might be because of my phosphate level (2.5 mg/l). Also my cheleted iron is 0 mg/l. I did a water change yesterday and it didn't seem to change.

Thanks!

Setup
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90g Reef Tank (3 years of age)

Water:
Temp - 80°
1.024 Salinity
8.3 PH
5.5 mequ/l Alk
.1 mg/l Nitrite
5 mg/l Nitrate
0 mg/l Non-Cheleted Iron
0 mg/l Cheleted Iron
2.5 mg/l Phosphate
130 mg/l KH
500 mg/l Calcium

Fish: 8 Chromis Damsels, Yellow Tang, Red Hawkfish, Lawnmower Blenny, 3 Bar Gobies, Sandsifting Goby, Royal Gramma, Maroon Clown, peppermint shrimp, featherduster, several turbos and hermies.

Inverts etc: Bubble, Hammer, 3 Gorgonias (brown, red, yellow), 2 finger leathers, 1 elephant leather, 30 or so mushrooms, brown polyp colony, brown/green polyp colony, torch, plate coral (looks like a plate and its hard - no tentacles or anything)

Infrastructure: wet/dry with liverock inside for the trickle, carbon underneath, and protein skimmer. I have about 3" of substrate floor. 175w powercompacts (8 hours) and 45w actinic (10 hours).

[Joey D]

this might help. I was at my fish retailers today, and i was asking about the same problem. They make a phosphate removing chemical, but it only works if your skimming. I dont remember what its called though('phosphate free' or something like that). Another almost certain guarantee would be a " UV sterilizer ". The intense light wavelengths of a UV sterilizer destroys the algae's DNA so it can't reproduce. Try to keep nitrate levels as low as possible. Your skimmer should be getting rid of nitrate causing bacteria, but you have to be careful not to eliminate the plankton for your inverts and coral. If you use a plankton supplement, I have read that when adding it, turn off your skimmer for 4 hours so the inverts can feed on it. Read this article: http://peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=16&cat=1789&articleid=2855
By the way, I just bought a new skimmer today that is a skimmer, UV sterilizer, chemical and bio filter all in one for $120.00. I'll keep you posted on how it works. One more thing, lower your water temp a few degrees(77-78).

[RothChyld]

Thanks! Do you have a website or pic of the skimmer you just bought? Also I live in FL where the outside temp is hot so my temp of the tank is where I can feasibly afford to keep it. (My house stays at 75° so I can keep my tank at 80°.) Electric bill is generally around $250 during the summer months! :(

[BrianH]

Rothcyld,

I would go after the phosphate issue first. Try doing 10% water changes per week using ro/di water. I would also buy a phosphate sponge. Try the Phosphate Magnet by Marc Weiss. It's not cheap, but I've heard good things about it. The best part is that I think it lasts about 6 months. Some of the other cheaper products only last about a week then have to be removed or they will release the phosphates they absorbed back into your tank.

As for the skimmer, I believe Joey D is talking about the new via aqua. I have seen it working in a lfs. IMHO it is not large enough to handle your 90 gal. tank.

Brian

[Joey D]

Yes, the skimmer i bought is the new via aqua, but there are two types: one is the via aqua uv sterilzer combo, and the other is just the via aqua( they are the exact same except one comes with a uv sterilzer unit). On the topic of phosphates being re-released into your aquarium, that's why you need a skimmer, so they dont get re-released. If your having problems with your temp, you may need to invest in a chiller. They are expensive but maintaining a constant temp is vital. Im moving to phoenix arizona in a few weeks where its gonna be 110, so i have to suck it up and buy a chiller, not something i really wanted to do. Another thing, my nitrate levels have been extremely high, and im starting to change 1 gallon of water each day until it goes down to a manageable level.

[BrianH]

Rothcyld,

I forgot your temperature question. 80 F is fine. I try to keep my tank between 80 - 82F. Even temporary swings up to the 85 F should be ok. Remember that temperatures in many reefs exceed 82F.

JoeyD
If you look a Rothcyld's original post he states that he has a protein skimmer in his wet/dry.
Also, I'm not sure that protein skimmers remove phosphates. I know that they remove organics before they have a chance to be broken down by bacteria and enter the nitrogen cycle.


Brian

[RothChyld]

Thanks guys. I may invest in a chiller even tho my temp is consistent at 80 as I would probably save more on cooling bills. I will also check into the phosphate magnet and see what that is all about.

I appreciate your replies!

[Joey D]

What i was saying about skimmers removing phosphates was that you have to use the phosphate removing chemical in order for your skimmer to pick up the phosphate. I know you already have a skimmer, but you should look into some kind of phosphate removing chemical. The reason i put my temp down is that my anemones seem to look healthier around 77 degrees. Anyone ever have an anemone split or reproduce? Is iodine recommended when keeping anemones? Anyone with answers please tell me what kind of chemicals your puttung in your water.

[plantbrain]

Skimmers by themselves will not remove PO4.
Also UV will kill the spores that make it through the UV.
They do nothing on the algae in the tank and spores that float and settle on substrates within the tank.

You can use a PO4 sponge, some are reusable a few times etc.
You can use a refugium which uses plants/algae to remove both NO3/NH4, PO4 and traces.
These are particulary useful and cheap in the long run. Tangs like the "food" anyway. You can set one up relatively easily in the sump. Many skimmerless systems use refuge's and have little issue.
You can always use the skimmer as a back up also.

Plants are the best method I've found for chemical removal.

If you are limiting Fe or NO3, then a high PO4 level is not going to make thing worse. You cannot limit two things are the same time to control growth after all. Still, getting it down would be prudent. Measuremnt of Fe is tricky and doesn't tell you what you need to know, are your plants/algae getting enough.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[BrianH]

Tom,

Great to see you posting in the SW forums.

Brian

[plantbrain]

Well that's the problem with them darn plants, they grow _everywhere_, even at 4x SW salinity.

Many things are applicable from FW. There are some differences. My academic background is weighted towards SW anyway and I use keep many SW tanks in the past, I'm a little outdated but this was good, the marine plant is a very key player in most reef tanks for the utility these days even since Leng's mud filters. Plants can clean up FW and SW equally well.

I add PO4 and NO3 to my all my tanks.

But perhaps some will take it a step further and use marine plants for aquascaping as their main tank rather than merely a filter. Marine plants grow much faster than corals and are cheaper/easier etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[BrianH]

Tom,

Do you have any SW tanks up and running now? I remember when I used to post in the plant forum(had a planted tank) you used to mention your SW tanks sometimes.

Brian

[plantbrain]

Yes, I collect everything live myself, well not the damsels.
I have a 25 gal Marine planted tank, w 110w lighting, 4-5" DSB, mud from where the plants are from/native to.
Bunches of hitchikers, fish etc. I didn't like the fish so they got culled.
I might get some fish but will need a permit for that(PITA) but need nothing for macro's/plants.

I must have 20 species or so.
My favorite at the moment is Cymopolia barbata.
I like calcareous reds also. Daysa and Heterosiphonia are also very nice.

No pics, no longer have a Digital. Still take slides though. I need to tend the tank and get things in good shape. Been lazy and away from town for 2weeks.

I plan on a CA cold water marine planted tank next year when I move back to the SF bay area. I'll get a decent sized marine set up for tropicals and have a separate smaller cold water system that will be linkedand a similar set up for FW. I'll also have a decent job then also to pay for it all:)

But plants/macro's will filter everything in all the tanks and the filters will be nice tank's in their own rights. Something many skimmerless folks are now realizing.

But at least there are a large number of skimmerless folks these days. Ah, they have discovered the path to plant enlightenment. It works in all water types pretty much.

Regards,
Tom Barr