Utterly Clueless, Please Help Me With Setup

[paradigmcubed]

I have decided to make the leap into the salt water fish hobby! Beforehand I must tell you I am utterly clueless as to what I need for setup and would be grateful if you guys can help me, but be prepared to be patient since I've never done this before! Anyways I have a 20 gallon tank, regular fluorescent hood, Emperor 280, 200 watt heater and thats it. Can any of this stuff transfer over to my saltwater tank, like the heater, emperor........? What stuff will I need for the setup? I have a vague idea that I'll defiently need salts, protein skimmer etc. So if you guys could tell me what I need for the setup that would be very, very helpful. Thanks a lot!

[Drake Titan]

http://saltwater.8m.com/

try that site....there are others in the article section of this www.aquariacentral.com

thats site is helping me get my set up going!

others will be able to help you out more though

[Corax]

Paradigm, welcome to the salty side! I'm gonna tag this thread for a followup post tonite which will hopefully get you off on the right foot. I'm at work right now and don't have time to give your question the attention it deserves. Yer in good hands here though as many big brains like to lurk in the shadows until fresh meat, I mean a moldable mind, comes along =)

[kreblak]

The heater will transfer just fine. In fact 200 watts for a 20 gallon tank is overkill! Anyway, you can keep the filter, but run it without media. In SW, activated carbon filters clog in a couple of days, creating more problems than I care to list. Just use it for water movement, or get a powerhead. Besides that, using a protein skimmer is optional. Some people swear by them, some hate them. I use one myself, and have noticed a marked decline in nitrate levels when I skim. Oh, and yes, you will need salts. I use Instant Ocean.

Welcome to the salty side! ;)

[paradigmcubed]

Okay great, thanks for the help! I have a couple more questions... Now I only want to do fish, not live rock, inverts etc. So I guess I'll have to get some dead coral rocks from the LFS. What sort of substrate do you guys use? How often will I have to add salt to the aquarium and how often will I have to test for salinity? Should I do water changes on the tank once a week and I assume I'll put the salt in before putting the water in and after dechlorinating it. Are there any sorts of tests I should expect to have to do daily, everyother day etc. I also guess you have to cycle a saltwater tank just like a freshwater tank? When cycling should I am guessing I'll add the substrate, rock and a couple of cheap hardy saltwater fish to help cycle it? Without live rock will I have to purchase a new light or can I keep the one I have? These are all my questions for now, sorry if they are out of order and thanks again!

[kreblak]

Allright, lets see if we can tackle these questions for you. First, cycling. To get your cycle started you should set up the aquarium. Most of the folks on these boards use a deep sand base for their substrate. Four inches of fine sand is the norm. Go to Home Depot and get Southdown sand, although the name has since changed from Southdown to some thing else...Oriongirl help! Anyway, you are looking for sand that reads "streralized" and "sandbox safe." It is *much* cheaper at Home Depot. Fill your tank with the sand, then add conditioned water. Get your heater and filter up and running. Once you have everything set, and your water has come up to about 78* temperature, you can mix salt. Get your salinity up to 1.021 - 1.025. I keep mine at 1.023. Take your salinity readings at least 12 hours after adding salt, as you have to let the water mix thoroughly. This is also why the filter should be running, so that you have plenty of water movement.

Once the tank is set up and running, you can cycle it. Do not use fish for cycling! Most will die during the cycle, and those who survive will have gill burns and very bad attitudes. To fishlessly cycle the tank, go to the grocery store, and buy a jumbo cocktail shrimp (uncooked). One will do fine for a 20 gallon tank. Then drop it in and watch it melt over the coming weeks. The rotting shrimp will produce vast amounts of ammonia, which your bacterial bed will begin to break down into nitrites. Then, a second bacteria will begin breaking down the nitrites into nitrates. When your water tests show ammonia and nitrites both at zero, your tank has cycled, and you can add fish. The full cycle should take anywhere from 4 to 9 weeks. My first cycle took nine weeks using damsel fish, and I lost 67% of them. I set up a second tank and did a fishless cycle, and it only took 5 weeks. I therefore highly recommend fishlessly cycling.

Now for your other questions. While cycling, you can test as often as you want. There are no fish to harm, so you don't have to worry about ammonia and nitrite spikes. Every 3 days should be fine. After you are done cycling, test your water when you feel the need. I test once a week, just to make sure everything is on the up and up. Measure your salinity often, especially with a 20 gallon tank. As water evaporates, it leaves behind the salt, raising the salinity of the remaining water. To combat this, you will need to "top off" the tank every few days or so with conditioned fresh water. This will return things to normal.

For water changes, you will need a mixing bucket or something else suitable. I use an old 10 gallon bucket. You will also need a heater and something for water movement. Instant Ocean buckets often come with a free minijet powerhead that is perfect for mixing. Add conditioned water, and let it warm to the tank water's temperature. Once the temperatures match, add salt, and let it mix for a day. Once the new water matches your tank's water in both tamperature and salinity, you may siphon out as much as you feel appropriate (I change 15%) from the tank, and replace with the freshly mixed water.

You mentioned that you don't want live rock. That is totally your choice, but I should tell you that fish LOVE live rock. It gives them hiding places, and makes the tank healthier. If you aren't going to use live rock, at least get some base rock and make a lot of crevices and nooks for the fish to conceal themsleves in. Dead coral is okay, but your fish will stress out without adequate cover to hide behind.

I know it sound like a lot at first, but once you are done with the cycle, SW tanks aren't that bad. Oh, watch out for something. Sometimes during the cycle the tank will begin to reek. This is because there is a rotting shrimp in it. Some people experience this, some don't. If your tank does begin to smell, it will go away in about a week. Just get a glade plug-in, and try to ignore it. ;)

[OrionGirl]

Southdown is now marketed as Old Kastle, I think.

Agree with the advice on live rock. Yes, a tank can be run without it, but the benefits of live rock, IMM, far outweigh the cost. With little to no maintenance needs, it's an ideal filter.

Also, depending on what fish you want, you may want to add some inverts. If compatible with the fish, hermits, shrimp, snails, worms, etc all help maintain the tank for you by eating algae, brekaing down solid wastes, and cleaning up any stray food.

[paradigmcubed]

Thanks for all the information! Would I need to add live rock before or after cycling?

[OrionGirl]

Depends. Cured live rock is best added after cycling, so you don't expose the remainging critters to the ammonia/nitrite spikes. Uncured live rock can be added at the beginning, though you will lose some of the beneficial life unless you're willing to perform water changes on the cycling tank. Might be easier to start the tank cycling, get the live rock, and cure it in a tub, with frequent water changes.

[Ray Pollett]

You've been given some good advice. I'll try to add a little to it.

First is get a good book. You will refer to it time and time again.
The two I reccomend are:

" The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert Fenner

And

"Natural Reef Aquariums" by John Tullock

Second. If you do not want to spend the money for live Rock (LR) you can use base rock. www.hirock.com Much cheaper, you add it to go thru the cycle. It then does the same as LR, but does not have the extra "goodies" (live forms such as corals, algse, pods etc...).

I use Kent salt in all my customer's tank- just so you know there is another salt choice. Instant Ocean is also great salt. You shuld pick one or the other and stay with it. Switching salt brands does on occassions cause problems.

Ray

[Ray Pollett]

Just saw something I missed. There are many ways to have a successful tank. We do not always agree on what they are.

I would leave the filter media in the 280. I do not use the bio-wheels. Once a tank is running well and you have a lot of pods; the media is a great place for them to live and breed. I sometimes do not have to change the media for 2 or 3 months on mature and healthy tanks.

Ray

[paradigmcubed]

Have you guys heard of that sand that is already "live", supposedly it takes a lot less to cycle. Also I'm told I don't need to do use a protein skimmer if I have no live rock. Is that correct?
Thanks

[kreblak]

Just like everything in this hobby, skimming is a personal choice. I skim, and I believe that it keeps my nitrate levels down. It seems to work for my tank. A lot of people on these boards do not skim, and their tanks are just fine.

As for live sand, it is sand with the nitrifying bacteria already living on it, as well as many other detrivores and critters. It will shorten your cycle time, as it contains larger numbers of nitrifying bacteria. In my humble opinion, though, live sand is way too expensive. Save yourself the cash, and do a fishless cycle with plain old sand. Then you are essentially creating "live" sand. Just my 2 cents.

[Ray Pollett]

I agree with Kreblak, the bags of live sand is a waste of money. If you have a friend with a SW tank; get a cup or two of his sand. It will do the same thing for free.

Ray

[kreblak]

A scoop or two of sand from an established tank can shave weeks off your cycling time. Sometimes your LFS will throw in some as a bonus for buying all their overpriced crap. Mine tries to charges 4.99 a pound for "cultured" aquarium sand. Seeing as how their tanks are ALL infested with Ich, I'll pass on just about anything they culture.

I'm not trying to say that people who buy live sand are wasting their time (and money), but if you have a little patience, your sand will be live in no time. Plus, if you want detrivores, you can get them in already-put-together packs from just about anywhere. I have had good experiences with Drs. Foster and Smith.

www.drsfostersmith.com

[paradigmcubed]

Thanks for all the replies! I know the guy at the LFS and he was saying if it was him he wouldn't do it. However he said if I wanted to shave a bit off and pay the price then I should get live sand. I think I'll go with good ol' Home Depot sand.

[Ray Pollett]

I mistyped the web address for baserock above. correct one is www.hirocks.com

Ray