View Full Version : CO2 refills from Paintball stores good or bad?
oyashare
12-09-2002, 1:26 PM
Hi guys. I was wondering if anyone had any experience filling up co2 from paintball stores? my local store will do a 10# cylinder for $5 and I was wondering if the co2 is good for my aquarium or not. They also sell 10# cylinders for $40. So it was going to cost me $45 to get a full 10# cylinder compared to $90 from some other place.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Omid
99RedSi
12-09-2002, 1:40 PM
A great question deserves a bump! TTT
Richer
12-09-2002, 1:48 PM
I must ask.... why does a post thats on top need a bump...!?
-Richer
oyashare
12-09-2002, 2:00 PM
To stay on top? :D
Omid
99RedSi
12-09-2002, 2:16 PM
Originally posted by oyashare
To stay on top? :D
Omid
Exactly :D
haha :p
Darkangel
12-09-2002, 3:15 PM
There was a huge long post on this very topic on another forum. I am a paintball player and an aquarist. I do not use CO2 in my tanks, but I do use it for my paintmarkers. A 10 lb cylinder for $40 seems awefully cheap. Those tanks have a limited life span before they require expensive hydrotesting. Also a 10 lb fill for $5 is great. My paint ball store charges $8 Canadian for a 20 ounce fill. Some people think that oil is added to paintball CO2 but to the best of my knowledge this is not the case. I buy my CO2 in bulk from a local gas supply company and they do not have any specifically for paintball. Long and short of it is as long as there is no oil added to the gas it will be fine for your tank. Ask them that at the store.
Im bumping this for more opinions. I plan on starting up CO2 very soon and am wondering if the local paintball store has the ability to fill my 5lb CO2 tank?
As a scuba diver I would like to comment on the added oil idea. No place would specifically add oil to there air. There is no reason. But if the air is non consumable then there is no need to make sure that oil from the machine doesn't get into the supply.
Of course since C02 is generally not a consummable air then one can assume that there might be oil or other contamenents in any CO2 source. I don't know how they would affect your tank.
Banky
03-21-2004, 10:17 PM
TKOS, do you know specifically if a typical paintball store would be able to fill my co2 tank?
Richer
03-21-2004, 10:45 PM
Why a paintball store to fill your tank? Have you asked a welding or a medical place how much it will cost? I refill my 5lbs tank at a welding suuply place for less than 10 bucks Canadian... every 6-7 months. Pretty darn cheap if you ask me.
-Richer
Banky
03-21-2004, 11:29 PM
Its just convinient. Theyre 1 minute down the street.
I am sure that any place that sells compressed CO2 will sell it to you as long as they have the ability to hook up the compressor system to your tank. But since I don't use a compressed CO2 system on my tank I haven't tried to get a paintball place to fill it for me.
PumaWard
03-22-2004, 11:41 AM
As a paintball player myself, I asked this very question a while back on this board and was told to do the soda bottle thing.
I tried doing this with a 20oz w/ on-off. It's very difficult to regulate even when using a remote and other stuff. It's cheaper to do it with a soda bottle and yeast, and easier I might add as well.
Another problem posed is if the tank gets knocked over or if there is a tube in the bottom, liquid CO2 can get in your tank... definately not good.
HTH
Richer
03-22-2004, 1:06 PM
Liquid CO2 getting into your tank!? :confused:
In order for CO2 to stay liquid, it needs to either be at a very low temperature (lower than anything the average person can achieve), or it has to be under a tremendous amount of pressure. As soon as CO2 leaves its CO2 tank, it will convert to its gaseous form. There is _no_ risk of liquid CO2 getting into your tank.
If you're having problems regulating CO2 output from a CO2 tank, you don't have it setup right. You need at least 4 things before a pressurized system will work:
1.) A pressurized CO2 tank
2.) A regulator
3.) A needle valve
4.) Silicon tubing (or CO2 resistant tubing)
The regulator should have its output regulated at around 15-20psi, use the needle valve to do fine tuning of the bubbling rate.
Every plant keeper who uses CO2 injection in their tanks will tell you, a pressurized system is much better than a yeast system. Though the initial cost is quite high, the system will more than pay for itself over time. I spend about 20 bucks Canadian a year on my pressurized system. Every 6-7 months, all I need to do is unhook my CO2 tank, take it to a welding shop, swap it for another tank, and hook it back up to my tank. Pretty much a plug and forget kind of system. Looking at how much I'd have to spend on something like sugar, jello and yeast, plus the time I'd have to spend every 2-3 weeks replacing the yeast system, I'd much prefer a pressurized system.
-Richer
I also like the idea of swapping the tank out. It means that you don't personally have to get it hydro tested or visually inspected every year. That falls on the welding company.
PumaWard
03-22-2004, 3:05 PM
TKOS, do you know specifically if a typical paintball store would be able to fill my co2 tank?
They probably would, they aren't going to turn down a sale. It woulnd't be very economical, some shops are pretty expensive.
Banky
03-23-2004, 11:52 AM
For future search reference, no paintball store I have called will fill a 5lb tank. They all told me 24oz is the largest they will fill. I dont know why but my only guess is they probably use a 5lb or similar sized tank to do thier actual filling.
No it is probably due to having the correct fittings. Those smaller paint ball containers use a small fitting to fill. Bigger 5lb and up tanks require something compleltely different and it would be a cost that wouldn't bring in a lot of return.
promethean_sprk
03-23-2004, 2:04 PM
If there was oil in the tank, it'd probably clog the prefilter on your first stage. They might use a little plumbers grease on the fittings to fill though. Paintball guys usually change tanks pretty often w/o using teflon tape, so some kind of grease sealant might be appealing.
daveedka
03-23-2004, 3:51 PM
A couple of things to consider on the oil in the tank thought. Oil floats on liquid, not on gaseous Co2, When the tank is standing upright, the liquid all sits in the bottom of the tank, As the pressure drops, the ratio of gas to liquid increase inside the tank (liquid level drops) so the chances of the oil escaping are pretty slim to begin with even if the the tank has oil in it which is usually not the case. CO2 is used widely for metal inert gas welding applications, If oil came out throught the gas in these processes it would ruin the welds. therefore this being a primary use for this gas, I imagine some precautions are taken. In the heavy equipment/mining industry that I work in Co2 is viewed similar to nitrogen, what comes out of the bottle needs to be inert, and contaminate free at all times. I have never seen it otherwise. I wouldn't hesitate to pump gas from a welding shop or a paintball shop either one directly into my tank. If you are truly concerned get it from a soft drink vendor, but I would not be.
They might use a little plumbers grease on the fittings to fill though. Paintball guys usually change tanks pretty often w/o using teflon tape, so some kind of grease sealant might be appealing.
The valves and hose fittings at the bottle are typically brass in order to prevent a need for any type of sealant. If you look at any torch set, nitrogen kit , mig (metal inert gas) or TIG (tungsten inert gas) setup you will not find any sealant or lube on the fittings, I am not at all familiar with the paintball set-ups, but anything large enough to be considered industrial doesn't use sealant at the tank valve. The fittings away from the bottle are often sealed, but this doesn't come into play at a refill facility.
Toro Driver
03-23-2004, 8:25 PM
Now that I reached the end, I am fed up with the yeast thing. Its is such a pain. I tried the jello thing twice and flushed it after less than a month because it was not putting out.
I say this because I have a limited budget and the cost of a pressure system is tough. So I have looked at temporary low cost solutions. The little tube you get for co2 rifles and hand guns state "not for human consumption".
My point is, co2 is used for human cunsumption and not all sources are suitable for this porpose. That is why I would not just go with any source of pressurized co2. It is my guess that welding supply stores and beverage distributers get thiers from the same supplier. Other places...well :soda:
bobalston
03-24-2004, 11:52 AM
YOu should be able to get a pressurized system going for about $125 or so.
Check locally at fire extinguisher and welding shops to find a used 5 lb tank. Check each store as you are looking for a deal on an excess tank.
If you move quickly, this guy hipchack@yahoo.com
has a used 3.5 lb tank for $30 (plus shipping).
Look at my site for RapidsWholesale and a couple of other sites with low cost regulators. About $35 or so.
Needle valve. If you have a local Clippard dealer you are in luck. Check www.clippard.com to see distributors in your area. Valve cost is about $10. Take in your regulator to get them to help you with whatever fittings you may need.
YOu will need a diffuser but likely you already have such.
http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2
Good luck.
Bob :cool: