View Full Version : Trying to grow plants
I am new to the plant growing world. I have a 29 with two 33 watt wal mart "plant grow" bulbs in a DIY hood. I am dosing with 2 mL of Flourish twice a week and 1ML of Flourish excell everyday. I am thinking about adding root tabs but I have not decided yet. I have a emperor 280 that gives alot of surface agitation and the tank is built into an in wall bookcase so there isn't really any room for CO2. Is there anything else I can do to help grow plants (I have wisteria val and sword), and how many plants can I add, and of what variety? Lots of questions, thanks.
TomFromStLouis
07-15-2003, 1:39 PM
After lighting, which you seem to have enough of, plants are most restrained by CO2. So if you are not going to add CO2, you may not need much in the way of ferts.
I am not familiar with Flourish Excell. Is that covering the major ferts (K, N, P)? Because Flourish is adding the trace elements and you need to make sure to cover the majors too. Probably your fish are providing the nitrates/ammonia and fish food the phosphates. Not sure if you are getting enough Potassium. Again, ferts may not be the growth limiting factor, so this is all relatively minor.
Continue choosing easier plants that do not require HIGH light. You should be able to grow many medium.low light plants, just not as quickly as the higher tech tanks. This may be a blessing - you can use stem plants that become problems in high growth tanks. I would browse your lfs, ask questions and buy what you like. Add plants until the fish cannot swim around any more.:D
Scott, I refer you to the Sticky at the top the Aquatic Plants page.
It was set up with people like yourself who are new to all this, and talks about necessary ferts, dosing schedules etc. It will tell you what you need and where to get it relatively inexpensively.
Also here are a couple of other sites that will help:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_newtank.htm
http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1998/may/aquatic/default.asp
http://www.sfbaaps.com/reference/barr_02_01.shtml
After reading this material, you will still have questions, but will come from a more informed place. And we are all willing to help.
Len
Tom Excell is a carbon source for tanks that don't use CO2.
djlen, thanks for the links, I have read the sticky, and I am glad for some more info through the links, well, guess I have some reading to do.
I've had my plants for a week and a half now. The red sword has three new shoots (which don't seem to be yellow but it looks like somebody might be chewing on one). The wysteria is going crazy and the val looks pretty good. My anubia (which was chewed down to the bulb by silver dollars in another tank) has new sprouts showing and lots of little roots coming out. I have not gotten the flourish root tabs yet put plan on doing so tomorrow afternoon. My last water change was on Wed when I did the standard 7.5 gallons. As of last night the nitrAte reading was 0. Should I add stump remover? How much for a 29 gallon tank with only the above mentioned plants? Should I raise it to a certain level (5ppm or higher, the tank is stocked above average I would say and I feed twice a day)? Where the heck do I get stump remover, and what brand? Thanks, I know its alot of questions.
djlen
07-20-2003, 10:21 AM
Spectracide Stump Remover....Lowe's Home Center.
1/4 tsp. and then test N level. Only dose in 1/4 tsp. increments til you learn what it takes to keep @5 - 10ppm.
Salt Petre is KNO3 and very pure. Can be found at *SOME* pharmacies....good stuff. I was lucky to find it close to home.
Len
scott
07-20-2003, 10:28 AM
Thanks, I'll stop on my way home from work. Is this a daily dosage to that level?
anonapersona
07-20-2003, 12:07 PM
I found KNO3 at the local Feed store for 50 cents a pound. Very clean and pure.
Scott....at most you'll be dosing MAYBE twice a week. No, it's not a daily dosage. Dose 1/4 tsp. and test. It will probably be close to the level you want. Then test in a day or a few days to see where it goes from there. The only time you automatically dose KNO3, IMO is after your weekly water change. After a while you'll learn what your plants will use. Same with PO4. Test and if necessary, dose.
Len
Okay, I am planning a water change for wed so I will re dose then. I always do 7.5 gallons, but I see you recommend 50 percent so I will up it. I picked up some No Salt and Stump Remover on the way home. Added quarter tsp no salt a quarter tsp remover. Waited thirty min. Tested, no nitrate, added half tsp, waited hour, no nitrate, just added another quarter tsp. I will not add anymore, I am already nervous about adding something with the word "remover" to my tank. How long does it take this stuff to dissolve? Are my nitrates going to be off the chart tommorrow? Thanks for the help guys. Also adding plants, when I add more should I up the dosage of excel and flourish?
I don't think I ever mentioned my photo period is 12 hours. Ph 7.5 and KH 2. That makes my co2, in the "less than ideal" range, bordering on downright crappy. I turned down the flow rate on the 280 a click, added some aragonite, any other suggestions?
If you added all that KNO3 to your tank you should have a reading. What kind of test kit are you using? Something is wrong for you not to be getting a reading. Don't add anymore KNO3 until you re-test. If necessary take a sample to your LFS for a test.
I use an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals test kit and it has two re-agents in it for testing. If I don't shake the second bottle for 30 seconds I will get a zero reading for KNO3. This could be a problem with your kit.
I did a 50% water change in my 40 and 55s yesterday and added back 1/4 tsp in all of them. Today my numbers were 10ppm. In a 29, you should be getting a reading.
Len
I have a brand new aquarium pharm test kit, just openend it. I bet I didn't shake it long enough. I will test when I get home and post results.
djlen
07-21-2003, 11:33 AM
That's the problem. According to Aquar. Pharm. it MUST be shaken for 30 secs. and then wait 5 mins. for the color to completely develop. I really like the kit.
If it comes up real high you may have to do a partial water change to bring it down. You added a lot of N! You want to stay in the 10ppm range KNO3. I dose only when it reads at 5ppm or below.
The plants won't mind it, but the fish will if it's high.
I do the same thing with PO4, BTW. Keep it at 1.0 and only dose when at or below .5ppm.
Len
Tempest
07-21-2003, 2:31 PM
Some stump removers contain things besides KNO3.. What brand did you get?
carpguy
07-21-2003, 7:27 PM
You're going to want to be really careful dosing without supplemental CO2. You've got modest light and the Excel, or a modest carbon source. Part of what you'll need to figure out is getting very modest ferts balanced to match the other two levels.
The plant growth will be limited by whatever you have the least of. If you let one of the other factors get too far ahead of this limit you'll have created an imbalance in your tank that algae will exploit.
Tests are good as far as they go, but keep an eye on the plants and be prepared to scale back if you start to see algae showing up. Its very easy to have too much of a good thing with this -- its really about the balance.
Well nitrate read at 10ppm so I lucked out I guess. I will only dose half teaspoon if a full teaspoon gave me 10. Tempest, I am using spectracide per djlen's recommendation. Thanks for the tips carpguy. I noticed a little hair algae starting just on the top of the glass, right where the filter pushes the water against it, don't know if that means anything. Carpguy, everything seems to be going prettywell right now. I am wondering about adding the root tabs as like you said I am afraid it will increase the nutrients and create and imbalance that algae will exploit. Am I correct in thinking that root tabs are mainly for iron and that since I have no yellow leaves I might not need them?
Scott, I would leave the root tabs out for now.
Just dose 1/4 tsp. KNO3, and only when needed. Let's call that when the test results go below 5ppm. You're not going to need a lot of it with your plant load and you can always add more if you don't see any increase from 1/4 tsp. Better to err on the light side.
Carpguy is right about an imbalance or at least the possibility of one occurring.
If there is no way for you to inject CO2 you're going to need to keep up with your Flourish Excel daily. Test for pH and kH and let us know what they are.
BTW, in answer to one of your original questions, "how many plants can I add?". The more plants the better, so go for it. Plants compete with algae for nutrients.
Len
Okay I will skip the root tabs, thats what I was starting to think. I will also pick up some more plants tommorrow and add them to help absorb any excess nutrients since I am starting to see a little algae. I will go with the quarter teaspoon of stump remover. I will keep up the excell daily at 2ml. ph and kh are currently 7.5 and 2 respectively. I added some arragonite to help with the kh. Thanks for all of the help, I'll post back to say how its going!
anonapersona
07-22-2003, 3:45 PM
Just for reference, I use 2 teaspoon of KNO3 in a 200 ml jar and then dose 1 ml per10 gallons to add 1 ppm. So to add 5 ppm to all tanks, the 10 G gets 5 ml, the 20 G gets 10 ml, the 29 G gets 15 ml. I consume about 60 ml of that solution a week, so the 2 teaspoons lasts about a month.
All my tanks are near 2.0 watts per gallon, which is what those two 33 watt bulbs are giving you.
I'm just a bit worried to hear about you adding 1/4 teaspoon here an 1/2 teaspoon there. I'm thinking that is a serious overdose and too much nitrate is a bad thing,
I hope you are reading the other posts that are coming in. You can't let your tank get out of balance or you'll experience serious algae issues.
I think you said you were going to do your water change tomorrow(wed.). Afterward follow the instructions on the bottle of Excel. I thing they call for 10mls after your water change and then 1ml for every 10 gals.(for you 3 mls.) per day. I'm hoping that this is going to give you enough carbon.
If you refer back to that sticky you originally read you'll find sources for K(potassium) and P(phosphates), but remember that the dosages you read are for, in most cases, tanks with injected CO2. Your dosages need to stay light on everything due to the lack of CO2. Ask questions before you dose anything else. These people along with myself have all made most of the mistakes(I think I've made them all) and learned the lessons. Ask and learn.
You can have a beautiful tank without CO2, but you have to find the balance of fertilizers to go with the Excel.
Hope this has helped.
Len
I'm just a bit worried to hear about you adding 1/4 teaspoon here an 1/2 teaspoon there. I'm thinking that is a serious overdose and too much nitrate is a bad thing,
Like I said I was adding until I got a reading but I used the test kit incorrectly. when I used it correctly and got a reading it was 10ppm nitrate. This was with 1 tsp. So I was going to dose 1/2 tsp but since djlen has recommende 1/4 I will stick with that. I never planned on making a quarter here and a half there a habit. I like your idea of the solution and I think I will try that once I get the basic application down. Thanks for the amount refrences annonapersona!
Djlen i have read all of the posts and I thank everyone. I added 1/4 tsp of nosalt for the K and plan on doing so again tommorrow after a 50 percent water change. I have not done anything for phosphate yet. I am dosing the excel and flourish according to the bottles. Thanks for all of the help everyone!
anonapersona
07-22-2003, 10:17 PM
If you are going to mix solutions to add fertilizers to your tank, you'll want to visit the very best site for that info.
Chuck's Planted Aquaria -- Fertlizer calculator (http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm)
If you try, for nitrate in potassium nitrate, put in 2 teaspoons, then 200 ml, then 9 gallons (then hit your enter on the keyboard) you'll get 1 ppm per ml added of that solution to a 9 gallon tank.