New Tank setup/test results

[sly]

This is our first experience with owning a fish tank. We bought a new 20 gal. tank last Thursday and followed all the directions for setting it up and starting the maturing process. When had our water tested yesterday they said that the Ph level was too high and had us add Ph Down to bring the level down. We have followed the directions on the bottle by adding 1 tsp for the 20 gal. The directions say to wait an hour and test the water again, then to repeat the process until you achieve the desired level. (6.5 - 7.5).

Okay, we did that last night, it took 3 doses to begin to bring the Ph level down. By this time it was 10:00 and we went to bed. When I checked the water this morning it was still above 7.5 Ph so I added one more dose. Has anyone ever had this problem? Does anyone have any suggestions?

We are really anxious to get the water quality like it needs to be so we can get some fish soon.

Thank you for any help!

Sly

[OrionGirl]

First, what is your pH without using the product (ie, water source, before adding it to the tank, after sitting out overnight in a wide mouthed bowl if from the tap)? What are your GH and KH values? What fish are you keeping? Do you have tests for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates? How are you cycling the tank?

Some people report great success with pH down, while others have the same problem you do--bouncing pH. A fluctuating pH is much harder for the fish than a stable, albeit high one. So, I would not use the product again. Fish can usually adapt to a variety of pH levels, as long as they are stable. Also, there are fish that will absolutely love your 'normal' pH--you just have to find them.

If you are determined to alter your pH, there are better, easier methods that will be stable. The use of peat filtration is one, or mixing your water source with filtered (reverse osmosis), neutral water. The miracle in a bottle products seldom perform exactly as advertised, simply because pH is dependent on several factors, including water hardness, tank decorations, and the biological processes lumped into 'cycling'.

[sly]

Originally posted by OrionGirl
First, what is your pH without using the product (ie, water source, before adding it to the tank, after sitting out overnight in a wide mouthed bowl if from the tap)? What are your GH and KH values? What fish are you keeping? Do you have tests for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates? How are you cycling the tank?


Answers:

I am using a 5 in one test strip and still getting the hang of reading it. But here are the answers the best I can tell right now.

The GH before adding anything was between 0 and 25.
The KH was between 180 and 300 ppm

Now that we've added the ph down, the ph level is still on the akaline side, the KH is a little lower but still not 180 so I can't tell you exactly. The GH is around 25ppm (very soft).

We have not added fish yet, but we weren't planning to do a fishless cycle either. Instead we were planning to add a few hardy fish and wait for the levels to cycle then add a few more fish in a couple weeks or so.

Where do we go from here?

Sly

[OrionGirl]

What kind of fish? There are lots of fish that will thrive in higher pH.

Any reason why you don't want to fishlessly cycle? The hardy fish may survive, but they will be gill burned and shorter lived. The reason I ask is simple--the pH has less impact on your fish than the presence of ammonia and nitrites in concentration high enough to register on a hobby kit. Bluntly put--a pH different from their native waters is acceptable, stewing in toxins until the bacteria to process them develop is lethal, either immediately or through a shortened life.

I wouldn't fiddle with the water chemistry at all. I'd even go so far as to advise you to do a water change to remove the chemicals already added--pH down is known to add phosphates, which promote algae blooms. Shop around for fish, and if you are not pleased with the fish that thrive in a slightly high pH, then look into acclimation processes.

[sly]

We are wanting a community tank. After reading about different fish that were recommended for beginners we were considering starting with either guppy or platy.

Would these fish be able to adapt readily to water that consistantly stays "soft?"

Thank you for your help and information so far. I have started looking through some information on the fishless cycle process and that may indeed be an option we need to explore rather than the traditional route of adding a few fish at a time. Our original thoughts were that we would follow the traditional process and slowly build up our tank through natural process. I should have asked more questions last night at the LFS when the sales person told us to add the ph down to the water. She wasn't very friendly (unlike the ones we had worked with the day we bought our tank setup) and we had our 2 year old with us. Her attitude really made me feel like she didn't think a family with a young child should be considering having an aquarium. I guess I was so uncomfortable I just took her at her word and wanted to leave as quick as possible.

[OrionGirl]

Platies will be very good, and there are a variety of colors out there. Keep in mind that they are live bearers, so you will end up with babies. Without intervention, most will be casualties (a polite way of saying they will be eaten). If you don't have plans for the babies, this is often the kindest method of avoiding over population. They will do fine in your water.

Guppies (while having the same livebearer issues) tend to prefer hard water, with a high pH. They can thrive just about anywhere though--there are many warmer waters in America where they were released and thrive. Wyoming has some warm water springs with guppies!

Of the two, I would go with the platies. I like them better--their personality is calmer, and while they may chase each other around, they are seldom prone to violence. Guppies can be the target of abuse by other fish you may want down the road--those flashy fins are a temptation to just about any moderately aggressive fish. At the same time, the males will savage one another for the females--not a fun thing to watch.

I would suggest looking at cories for a bottom feeder--a group of 4-5 will be fun to watch as well as helping keep the substrate clean.

Some LFS are fantastic, with knowledgable caring people. Others are terrible, with people who don't care and don't know, so can't help. Most are a mixed bag--a few people who really try, and some that are just getting a pay check. I think that it's really important to use several research methods--there are good books, as well as a plethora of information on the net. It's unfortunate that most LFS have a few people who will sell you a product that won't really help, rather than identify what you really need. Always be a bit cynical when someone offers you the magic bullet in a bottle--some are little more than snake oil. ;)