Florida Flag Fish questions-

[Sumpin'fishy]

I am interested in possibly getting one or two of these fish for my 20 gallon planted tank. I have been having algae problems with green hair and Black bush algaes. I am addressing the root cause, which I believe is under-dosing some ferts, so the cause is hopefully going to go away. I would like FFF to get rid of much of the remaining BB and hair algae I have on many plants. I have trimmed the plants profusely and I don't want to shock the plants or the entire system any more than I already am. I also want to keep even minor occurances from happening in the future.

My questions are: How would this fish fit into my setup? Do I have to get more than one for them to thrive? How many, if so? What are their temperment/personalities like?

I have a fairly heavily planted, 20 gallon tank (3 Swords, lawn full (10+) of Pigmy Chain Sword, 1 Java Fern (with many algae encased baby plantlets on it's leaves), 1 Anubias Frazieri, 1 Anubias Nana, Stump of Java Moss, and a few stems of Anachris.

I have 70w of light (2x 20w strips, and 2x 15w CF screw-in bulbs) all within 5000k to 6500k spectrums. I have 2 Hagen DIY CO2 systems running into a powerhead/vaccum active reactor setup. I keep a steady 25-30ppm CO2 going. I use an ECCO 2233 canister and 100w heater, set to 78 F.

Fish include: 1 male Betta, 3 Bronze Corys, 1 Albino (bronze) Cory(used to have 3 of these too!), 4 Ottos, 6 Neons......that's it. Do I need a shoal of FFF, if I get any? Will they do well in my tank? Are they good with algae?

Thanks for input.

[tricksterpup]

Ok, I have a pair, Jordanella floridae (flag fish) in a 10 gallon planted tank. I have notice that the male can be a little grumpy towards others of the same species. It took mine awhile to fully accept the female. He never really chewed on her but kinda pushed her around and she always came back for more. But you definatly want a male. They are very colorful fish, the are not called the American Flag fish for nothing. Mine are shy fish but then again, they are in a room with little human contact except at feeding time and for powering on and off the lights for the tank.
You definatly do not want a shoal, because the males will fight like bettas. You will not have dead fish right away but seriously stressed out ones. From what I see of your tank, he will become the tank boss. Don't let this discourage you though, because the are by far the neatest pup fish you will purchase.
This is all from my personal experience now for a great site and info..
http://www.nativefish.org/Articles/Jordanella-floridae.htm
I think people should know more about native fishes. :)
jim

[Sumpin'fishy]

Wow, that was a very informative article......thanks! Do you suggest I get a pair, then? Where is the best place to buy them online? I haven't ever seen any around here in the shops. I noticed them at Florida Driftwood.com's site, and they sell a minimum of 3 fish. Should I just get 3? Do I need to get some floating plants like Duckweed for them to nibble? I don't want my plants getting pruned by the fish!;)

[WolfPup522]

I also have a pair of them in my tank - 2 males, Lewis and Clark (cute, huh? heehee). I cannot begin to explain how great these fish are! Mine have not been aggresive at all, but they do stand up for themselves when the Buenos Aires tetras try to play rough. They spend the majority of their time looking for food (now that they've obliterated my black hair algae problem) and whenever I come in the room, they almost immediately swim towards me (but I think the tetras may have "taught" them to do that). In addition to the FFF, I also have 4 Buenos Aires tetras, 3 scissortail rasboras, and 3 ottos. They tend to ignore the rasboras, tolerate the ottos, and play with the tetras. They also seem to be very attached to each other - they're never very far apart.

By the way, I agree about that article - very informative, although the picture doesn't do the fish justice. As far as where to purchase them, I've never purchased fish online, so I have no idea about that. I went to my LFS and asked the owner if he could order them. He said he couldn't, but he often gets shipments with FFF mixed in with the livebearers. So he called me when that happened again.

Good luck!

[tricksterpup]

Hmmm.. Well fishy, you could take a drive to florida on a weekend and look for some. :D
As for the picture goes, yes, it doesnt do the fish justice but, it is a female and a nice looking one at that. I think the sight is just incredible, I think everyone should check it out.

As for ordering them online, well you could try this site and see if you can order a few. I have order fish from this site and the customer service is very nice. It may take them awhile to get back to you since the person who does the emails goes on collection hunts through the week and doesn't get to them on the weekend. So i would try calling. He will call you back.
http://www.aquaculturestore.com/

the items i have ordered from him have been:
Daphnia (the starter culture)
Scuds
Leptolucania ommata Pygmy Killie Fish
Heterandria formosa Least Killie Fish
Still waiting for:
Gambusia affinis holbrooki Eastern Mosquito Fish

jim

[Sumpin'fishy]

Is it important to have some floating plants in the tank? I don't currently have any.

[tricksterpup]

I am not sure, I have floating plants in my tank but that is my personal preference. The one LFS that I go to keeps them in their planted tanks and there is no floating plants. So I really don't think you really need anything floating.

jim

[WolfPup522]

For these fish, I think the floating plants really is your personal preference. I don't have any floating plants, and they seem to do fine.

And your right, tricksterpup, that website is great. I also agree about the female in that picture - it's a nice one, I just prefer the males for their coloring.

[tricksterpup]

This little fish is very under rated along with other North American species. :) I think that more people should try and keep one in their tanks. They are beautiful and very hardy. My pair (in a species only tank) used to chase each other now they cuddle next one another. I am hoping that they will breed on me.
jim

[Molino]

I was debating using these guys in my planted tank instead of an SAE. My SAE sometimes bothers my Male Apisto who is very docile.

Would the Flag fish bother the Apistos? Also would it be best to get at least two to keep each other company?

[Sumpin'fishy]

Good question. I also plan to add Apistos to my tank when I upgrade to a 55 gallon.

[WolfPup522]

I've never had Apistos, but my flag fish have never chased any of the others. In fact, when I first introduced them into the tank, they took one look at the tetras and "ran" to hide (my tetras are pretty big and VERY active). Now everyone gets along very well.

As far as getting at least 2 to keep each other company, that's what I did. My LFS said I should probably get 3 or 4 so they feel more comfortable together, but I decided on 2 since I didn't want to overcrowd my tank.

[Sumpin'fishy]

Well I went to my LFS and asked them to see if they could order them on Tuesday. They ended up arriving at the LFS today! I specifically ordered 2 pairs. I have two tanks I can separate them into if necessary! Anyways, when I looked at them in the tank, the LFS owner and I only found 3 in a very small bowfront tank he's letting them sit in. He gave a good idea and said it would be best to let them stay for a few days to settle. They are in the tank alone, except for one small common pleco.

I did not notice any difference in the way any of them appeared (male vs. female) and asked him if he got in two "pairs". He said that's what he ordered, but he wouldn't guarantee that's what came in!:rolleyes:

He's gonna charge me $4 each if I take all 3 (that's all we could find). Is this a decent price? I think the price at the online site you named was about $15 for a group of 5! Hmmm! Also, is it going to be a problem if they are all males? They seemed to be huddled together in the LFS tank (which is understandable, since they just got there today), but not overly stressed!

[tricksterpup]

Still that isnt that bad of a price for them. I remember seeing them at either a petco or petsmart a few years ago for under $2. But I wasn't sure what they were, now i could've kicked myself in the but. But i have a nice pair and plan to maybe get some more at my lfs for my 55 planted.
" The female sports a false eyespot in the center of her side, directlybelow the start of her dorsal fin, and another in the rear base of her dorsalfin. " from the NFC website.


jim

[WolfPup522]

I agree, not a bad price at all. I got mine for a little under $3 each. I'd like to have a 55 planted to put more in! heehee (not enough room)

By the way, if anyone decides to breed these guys, let me know how it goes. I'd be interested in trying it in the future.

[tricksterpup]

Well, Lastnight I was sitting in the room where I keep my flagfish tank and noticed something swimming around. Well, low and behold there was a small fish, for a second i thought i placed a live bearer in the tank. But it was a half inch fry, looking very nice and healthy, never saw any of the other fry and it looks like he be the sole survivor. There were a pair of mystery snails in the tank when the eggs may have been laid, and may have eaten the other eggs.
But my tank is proof that they will breed in a 10 gallon tank. :D

jim

[WolfPup522]

Congrats! Let me know how it goes. I'm debating on getting a female.

[tricksterpup]

I say get one.. :)
keep them in a nice 10 planted tank and see what happens.
I actually kept them in a room that I rarely go into, except for feedings and to chill out every once in awhile.

jim

[tricksterpup]

Ok, from what I noticed, with the behaviour of the fish, is that the male cleared a spot on the substrate (using flourite) and enticed the female. I also had heavy top cover but they seem more prone to lay eggs on the gravel. I gave them multiple things for them to chose from a flat rock, gravel to a top covering of hornwort and duck weed. The mating and protection of the eggs is very similar to that of sunfish behaviour. This explained why he chased the female so much and tormented the large snails I had with them. Snails are being promptly moved to livebearer tanks.

jim

[Sumpin'fishy]

Congratulations!

Think mine have a chance in a community tank like I have (20 gallon) or should they be kept alone?

1 Betta
2 FFF (male and female)
6 Neons
4 Corys
4 Ottos

Lots of plants

???

[tricksterpup]

I would say, if you want to breed them, keep them alone. Keep an out for snails but keep them in a nice plant tank and they should breed for you. The reason I think they should be left alone is that the male gets aggressive and chases every thing around when he is in breeding mode.

jim

[WolfPup522]

I agree with keeping them alone. I'm sure tricksterpup could attest to this more than I, since I've only read about it, but from what I understand the male gets extremely aggresive in protecting the nest. I read that it's usually about a 6-inch range around the nest, but I wouldn't risk it in a community tank.

[tricksterpup]

Originally posted by WolfPup522
what I understand the male gets extremely aggresive in protecting the nest. I read that it's usually about a 6-inch range around the nest, but I wouldn't risk it in a community tank.

Yes, I have noticed that He owns off the tank and keeps her to the other half. He has pestered everything else in the tank, such as the pair of Golden Mystery Snails who now live in other tanks. Another thing i noticed in behaviour is that the male cleared out a bare spot in the tank, so he ripped up all the plants in the location. So be prepared that he will do that. Unless they both decide to lay eggs on floating plants.

jim