View Full Version : Walnut Gravel
Jamie
07-29-2003, 10:25 PM
Still trying to decide on a substrate...Is this stuff really good for plants? Seems pretty inexpensive- 5 bucks for 22#-
http://www.bigalsonline.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi
wetmanNY
07-30-2003, 12:50 AM
The Estes gravels are coated with a clear epoxy. Dust-free or something. the "walnut" simply refers to a color tone. But in other words they have a cation exchange capacity about as low as glass frit. Not very plant-friendly. Unwashed sand with flourite would go farther to give you the CEC you need.
Or a combo of Flourite and Turface/Profile. Flourite is expensive but you can cut that expense in half by mixing in the Turface/Profile.
Len
BTW, you cannot easily link to pages on Big Als site.
Alex
Pure personal opinions - I will not have Profile in my tanks any more than i will vermiculite, it is too light and a major issue at replantings. I don't like sand either, I've had anoxic issues there in the past and will not use such again.
Flourite and its relatives are superb plant substrates, but several times the price of Estes' walnut.
Walnut is often selected because of its color, no other reason - it is an excellent color choice. With laterite mixed into the base 1" of substrate it can serve very nicely as a planted tank substrate.
All IMHO, YMMV
Pink Pat
08-01-2003, 12:39 AM
Mr. Robert,
I don't like sand either...
--Really, I'm shocked at this. I've had great success with sand. I think it is easy, as long as you absolutely do not use anything organic. Sand combines easily with any number of sub or sub-substrates. For a 'natural' look, it is very hard to beat. Rumors of compacting and or clouding issues when replanting are grossly overstated (dare I say M&UL status), IMO.
But I'm also surprised that you let sand get the better of you. I like to expand my skills and overcome those pratfalls that 'get' a lot of people in this hobby. It seems that someone with your skill and experience could easily figure it out. Perhaps you have no need, hence the lack of desire. I'm just saying that for the reason you listed (anoxic problems), you should be able to handle that and have great success with a sand
substrate.
...anoxic issues there in the past...
--Mr. Subliminal (MTS) says you (MTS) should perhaps (MTS) give something (MTS) like MTS a try. They will utilize the substrate well and often, keeping it well 'stirred' and unlikely to become anoxic.
Flourite and its relatives are superb plant substrates...
--Certainly they are, but for people on a budget there are plenty of alternatives that will give great results for far less money. If money is not an issue, Florite is a most reasonable choice of the available substrates. If there is something better, they are only now inventing it.
Jamie,
I also agree with wetmanNY's reply. A good substrate that provides a high CEC is going to be to your benefit. Your substrate can become a 'bank' for nutrients making management of the rooted plants easier.
There are better substrates than the one mentioned.
HTH
PP
PP While I appreciate that you and many others like and have success with sand, I do not and will not use it. I have a very strong aversion to finding old H2S pockets in my substrates, even if I have not had tank problems from such. I also prefer very dark substrates, which the Seachem products and Estes' walnut provide. I don't personally care for the look of sand either. My tanks are set for long-tern use without a lot of hassle and minimal worry. The substrate chosen is part of that process. It is not for me, and will not be, sand. But I did specify originally that this is all personal choice.
If I set a tank for a 10-year time frame, the cost of the materials is relatively trivial. Gravel or Flourite are all but eternal, they are likely to be recycled from a prior tank rather than purchased new anyway. If gravel/laterite is used, the laterite will be purchased for the tank, but that is not a high-dollar item.
But hey, I don't like community tanks either, that shocks a lot more folks than my substrate choices.
tricksterpup
08-01-2003, 2:42 PM
Originally posted by RTR
But hey, I don't like community tanks either, that shocks a lot more folks than my substrate choices.
ARE YOU INSANE? Off your rocker.. my god, the world is now gonna end.. A person who doesn't keep a community tank.. ;)
just kidding..
Actually I am with RTR on this. I dont do community tanks either, lol, out of 10 tanks, i have only 1.
I prefer using larger gravels over sand for a plant tank, even though i am currently have a brackish tank with sand and live plants. But I have a large population of Malaysian Trumpet snails in the tank. I am hoping that they are performing a excellent job at stirring up the sand. This is just an experiment. If this doesnt work, thinking on lowering the salinity slowly, (since it is a molly tank) and adding kuhli loaches.
But I still agree with not using sand as a freshwater substrate. I would rather use kitty litter/flourite and regular gravel.
jim
Of course I am insane. I am currently operating 24 tanks. Q.E.D. :cool:
The bad news is that MTS, despite rumors to the contrary, do not and will not dig deeply. they are strongly limited by the O2 gradient, so in moderately coarse gravels or over UG/RFUG can get a bit of depth, but lacking UG the numbers I've seen have been only ~2cm. In sand it will be less, due to the steeper O2 gradient. Keep that bed shallow?
I do have a community tank, one of 24. When I moved the office tank home this summer and was musing over what to do with it, my wife and niece both came down on me like a load of bricks. They like it. I am stuck.
tricksterpup
08-04-2003, 4:06 PM
Originally posted by RTR
Of course I am insane. I am currently operating 24 tanks. Q.E.D. :cool:
When do we officially become insane? Is it after 4 tanks or is it more?
In sand it will be less, due to the steeper O2 gradient. Keep that bed shallow?
I keep my sand beds in my FW tanks under an inch. I am not really to excited to have anoxic issues. I also stir up my tank once a week for water changes. :)
tricksterpup - I'm sure the number required varies with the individual, and perhaps with the complexity of the setups, but 4 sounds a bit light for prima facie diagnosis of insanity, unless they are demanding tanks - as, 4 reefs, no question!
With planted tanks you shouldn't, or can't disturb the substrate routinely. So that option is out for maintaining sand. My unplanted tanks have shallow substrates also, which are regularly and rountinely well-vacuumed to full depth.
tricksterpup
08-05-2003, 4:08 PM
Originally posted by RTR
but 4 sounds a bit light for prima facie diagnosis of insanity, unless they are demanding tanks - as, 4 reefs, no question!
RTR,
I totally understand the reef tank issue, I had 2 myself and room mate had one. They are beautiful tanks but when they crash, as mine did when I moved all those years ago, it will drive one to insanity. I still miss my 18 inch frog spawn i had and the giant leather in the tank.. they were gorgous
Right now, my substrate of choice is this fine red flint stone that is sold in my area. It is really nice and started to use it in a few of my tanks. It is a little bigger than course sand.
This might be the right mix with kitty litter. I may have to try it in a small tank and see how that takes.
jim
Years ago, red flint gravel was available around here, 20-30 years ago? But I have not seen it in a long time - very nice substrate.
tricksterpup
08-06-2003, 1:07 PM
Originally posted by RTR
Years ago, red flint gravel was available around here, 20-30 years ago? But I have not seen it in a long time - very nice substrate.
Showing your age here I see. ;)
I normally found red flint as a normal gravel grain size.. at this size its a nice looking gravel. But I went to a shop I normally didnt go to, since It was on the other side of town and they had this smaller finer grain. I picked up a 50 lb bag for about $12.50. A few bucks more than what I am used to for the larger grain but I really liked it and thought what the hey, i spent more on other substrates. I already have it in a tank with hornwort and waiting for some Gambusia Holbrooki. I may try this in another 10 gallon tank, with some kitty litter. I have read about the use of straight Clay litter from here in the past and never tried it, always buying Flourite. It is just one never ending experiment for me, trying new and different things.
jim
Trying new things is an antidote for burn-out, at least for me. At about 10-year intervals if I catch myself getting casual and careless, it is time to break down tanks and start up some other phase of the hobby.
And I have been at this longer than most folks here have been alive...I started subteen/just teen, and with some braks in school and grad school and military, I've been at it since. I just retired a couple of months ago.
tricksterpup
08-07-2003, 3:34 PM
RTR,
I totally agree with you about the burn out. I vaguely remember my first tank, got it in 71. IT was a slate bottom, metal rimmed 10 gallon tank. I have gone from fresh, to salt back to fresh many of times. I am currently into sub tropical Native and live bearer planted tanks.
And like you have seen this hobby change so much in the last 30 years. It keeps getting better and better. :)
I just wish boards like this were around when i first started.
jim
At least I might not have killed as many fish . . .