"Flora Base" vs. Flourite/etc.

[Sumpin'fishy]

I have been reading adds (there's the problem;) ) and looking at prices and such in catalogues (Dr. Foster/Smith), and have seen that Flora Base by Red Sea is the most expensive substrate out there! I have Flourite Red mixed with sand in one of my tanks, and have heard numerous raves about Flourite/Onyx, and even a little about EcoComplete lately, but never anything about Flora Base. Anyone have any experience with it?

One of their claims is that it maintains a stable 6.5 to 7.0 pH. Another is that it does not require additional CO2 systems. Is this just saying that you don't "need" to have it, or that the substrate itself offers some form of carbon to the plants? If it offers small amounts of carbon itself, then this would be ideal for low light tanks or for those who don't want to invest in pressurized systems yet!

I'd love to hear any feedback on this stuff!

[RTR]

Good post, good questions. No experience there myself, but I'm looking forward to seeing some real trials...

[125gJoe]

Anyone ??

[beviking]

Argh! I was hoping for some answers too!!

[Starry]

I wanna know too! :)

[plantbrain]

Not adding CO2 is an issue of light, not substrate. What intensities are they talking?

Add enough light etc, you will have to have that CO2, no way the substrate can supply it at the rate needed. CO2 is CO2. That's what plants will use.
Adding CO2 will help even down at 1 w/gal as far as plant health and growth is concerned, especially with some species.

Touting it as a CO2 replacement is simply wrong. But saying you "don't need to add CO2" to grow plants _can be_ said.

Claiming the pH will just to 6.5-7.0 is somewhat misleading. After a month of water changes, the pH will not be that level if I did my water changes with tap that's hard and a pH of 8.1. The buffer neutralizing ability and the carbon supply ability is not going to all come fron this small amount of substrate for long. Things have to be replaced at the rate they are removed.

Think about it.

Now when folks claim things that don't make much sense I tend not to trust and become more suspicious of what they say.

I can claim the same for pH stable 6.5 and Flourite.

Try it out and see. It's has not been on the market all that long.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Sumpin'fishy]

This substrate is a bit to expensive to buy as an exclusive substrate for my 55 gal and "try it out".:) I may buy 2 bags and then add 3 bags of Flourite. Can't really mess up too bad, then!;)

BTW, does that sound like it's going to be about the right amount of susbstrate? I would like to have a 3" front sloping up to a 6" rear. I want to really get some slope going in this tank! That should average out to about 4.5" worth of substrate all over, just to be safe. Of coarse I will have one large (roughly 10"x10"x10") boulder in the tank, along with lots of driftwood and natural caves/etc. To make this simple: how much do I need to fill a 55 gallon to 4"? I will also add a half inch or so of peat to the bottom.

[djlen]

From my experience with 55's(and I have two), I would say that
you will need 70 - 75lbs. to accomplish your mission.
Don't quite understand why you want to put peat in the bottom of the tank, but let us know how it works out.
Len

[Sumpin'fishy]

Thanks for the amounts, Len. The peat is used for nutrients in immature substrates. Plantbrain has talked lots about it.....I'm sure you've read it before, but maybe just forgot. He talks about using mulm from a disease-free tank and a "handfull" (I think that's for 20 to 30 gallon tanks) of peat in the bottom, under your substrate. If you have a matured substrate, it's probably not of much use.

[plantbrain]

Try a couple of handfuls of ground peat for a 55gal, you don't need more really unless it's a non CO2 planted tank.

I think using the product is fine etc, but I just would never rely on their claim I don't need to add CO2. I can say that about any substrate.........I can also claim "no water changes for 6 months!" Doesn't mean it's a good idea in many cases generally.

But this substrate will not harm anything.
5 bags should do pretty good for a 55 gal.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[as40]

This may be too late to be of use, but perhaps for future reference or anyone surfing the forums...

I purchased some flora base recently and yes, it is VERY expensive, prohibitively so to use as an exclusive substrate. Nor would I use it exclusively simply because of how much it clouds the water (though it claims to do the opposite).

I purchased one bag of the stuff to use in my 40 gallon tank. I also use roughly 60 pounds of very fine regular gravel. I pre-rinsed the gravel, though did nothing to the flora base, as the directions tell you not to pre-rinse it. You should have seen the dust it created when I poured it in and mixed it into the gravel!!!

It may or may not be a good product. It's been about a month now since I've had it, so I don't know if the cloudiness when disturbed eventually goes away with water changes, or how it works for plants, but I will let you all know soon as I am getting my plants in the next day or so.

I would perhaps consider onyx sand an alternative to flora base as I've heard nothing but good things about it.

[Sumpin'fishy]

Here is something that I found since I bought 5 bags of Flourite instead of trying this stuff:

"Something totally new from Red Sea...an Aquatic plant substrate that actually benefits the plants and the aquarium. A new innovation in formulated substrates. Flora Base has been scientifically designed to provide the optimum nutrients and growth factors for all aquatic plants while significantly increasing the overall beauty of the aquarium. It's completely pH balanced and will actually remove cloudiness from the aquarium water. Read below for some of the other great benefits provided by this new innovation in substrate technology:

Flora Base: All-in-one Aquatic Plant Substrate. In nature, aquatic plants flourish where the river or lake bottom provides a regular supply of the minerals and organic substances necessary for the vitality of the plants, and where its texture allows the plants to root strongly. Flora Base is a scientifically formulated, state-of-the-art product that provides both the nutrients and texture required by plants for proper growth and development, guaranteeing ideal (natural) conditions for lasting plant growth. Flora Base is made from natural ingredients including river bottom clays and naturally occurring organic compounds that have been formed into a soft, porous, granular structure that is easily penetrated by growing roots. The roots are thereby truly anchored to the substrate while having immediate access to all of the nutrients. The porous structure also allows plant nutrients to be released to the surrounding water so that no additional fertilizers need be added. Flora Base is pH stabilized and will assist in maintaining the correct pH beneficial for aquatic plants. The natural properties inherent in Flora Base actively absorb floating substances removing cloudiness from the aquarium water. Each 12lb (5.4kg) bag of Flora Base will provide the right quantity of substrate for a 10-gallon aquarium. Flora Base should NOT be rinsed prior to addition to the aquarium or mixed with gravel or other substrates."

[Leopardess]

While the topic of substrates is raised...

I thought I'd add a little something for the future reference of others:)


I am very impressed with Schultz's Aquatic Soil (Profile). It is more readily available (at least where I am) and can be picked up at Home Depot for 5 bucks for a 10lb bag.

I prefer the look of it over Flourite - it is smaller grained, one solid terra cotta color and doesn't need to be rinsed a quarter as much:)

My plants are all growing like mad and I'll probably never spend the extra money on Flourite again..

This is what it looks like - (btw, since this pic was taken this lotus has grown to the surface...I'll think about getting some pics up later of it...in a sort of time-elapsed growth pic:)):
http://www.dslextreme.com/users/louieg/leopardess/tigerlotusa.jpg

[RTR]

The uniformity of color is one of the things I object to about Profile - the blend of colors in Flourite is much more pleasing to me. I have never been able to live with uniformly colored gravel. But that is personal preference.

My main objection to Profile is that it is too light, it just is not dense enough for me.

[plantbrain]

I do like the color of profile, MPV turface(they make a black type too!), but the light weight is my main gripe.
Planting and replanting is a PITA.

You can mix similar colored sands with these light weights to give some density.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Leopardess]

Personally, I don't care for the UN uniformity of color in Flourite lol. For whatever reason, it looks 'volcanic' to me. And onyx sand gets on my nerves...black dirt? It looks funny to me.
That just goes to show personal preference is even applicable to 'dirt' :)


I haven't ever had any issues with profile being too light to hold plants down. Maybe I'm just lucky - even my hydrocotyle stays in place with the cories wreaking havoc around it.

Plus, I've noticed I like my microsword/dwarf hair grass better in profile, its probably all in my head but it looks denser to me because the stalks can grow closer together.

but, even if i did find it too light, the price is worth a little extra hassle, imo:)

[Captain Hook]

Profile is good value for the money no doubt. I bought a bag of Aquatic Plant Soil and it's a darker red than yours. It is more similar to a uniform coloured flourite in terms of dark red.

[Leopardess]

Hm thats wierd. Was it perhaps the Schultz's Aquatic Soil (Conditioner)? Its almost the same thing. Or was it really "Profile?" I'm just curious because I've only ever found this color.

[Captain Hook]

Yes it was really Profile. Called Profile Aquatic Plant Soil. The front of the bag says "ceramic granules made from 100% natural fuller's earth". It's meant for ponds I think.

[Leopardess]

Huh, thats neat:) And yes, it is meant for ponds lol.
Maybe there is slight variation in color according to the nutrient source (though I've opened up 15 bags of the stuff so far). Who knows lol. All I know is that I like it:)

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by Leopardess
Personally, ......
That just goes to show personal preference is even applicable to 'dirt' :).....
Your substrate looks good!
I'm pretty much torn between the looks of Flourite, Onyx Sand, and what you have. I do think the darker substrates help enhance the colors of the fish and plants.

[DIYMatt]

I too, have noticed differences in color in the Schultz's products. I had a ten that I have a Schultz's Profile Clay soils conditioner/gravel mix in it that I set about 2 1/2 years ago and the schultz's appeared more gray than your's Leopardess, and I didn't like it. Now, I have a couple of tanks now with a Schultz's/Flourite mix. The Schultz's appears much more red than the earlier ones. BTW- one was bought as "Aquatic plant soil" and the other as "clay soil conditioner". I, too, prefer more natural mixed gravel colors than Profiles.

My experience with Schultz's is that is too light at first. Recently, I have been just capping my schultz's with 1/2-1" of flourite. Otherwise lots of plants would float up and I would suck out the profile even with a very small gravel vac. But, the Schultzs seems to be very porous, which is good thing. So, over time it seems to "fill up" with organic matter or something and it ends up staying down. So, IME if you cap it with something heavy, they will mix together over time as the profile weighs down.

Its only been about 6 months with my 70/30 Schultzs/flourite tanks. But it seems to be working very well, judging by my Swords, Barclaya, and Lotuses. Much better than my Schultzs/fine gravel substrate tanks, and at least as well as my Flourite only tank. But, as we all know the substrate is only one small peice to the aquatic plant puzzle.

[Leopardess]

well, joe, my plan is for all the plants to grow in so that you don't see it at all;):)