filter ?

[Ben2988]

I have had a planted tank for about 4 months and I'm using a Magnum 350 on a 55gal. I'm using Sea Chems bio matrix and Keta peat in the media container. Three days ago I added 3 discus and now concerned for their well being also. I don't feel I'm getting enough bio filteration. The tank has 7-9 med. to large swords and several small variants. I'm willing to give the best for the fish and plants. Is this ample filteration are there better options

[125gJoe]

Are you opposed to using canister filters? I'm not sure of the limits of the Magnum filter...

What is your tank temperature?

[Ben2988]

I'm not opposed to canister filters. The magnum has limited media space maybe a 1/2 quart. and I dont feel this is enough.
The magnum has the option of a bio wheel. I'm worried that I'd lose too much Co2 with this option.

Tank temp 83 degrees F

[Toro Driver]

I looked long and hard at the Mag 350 because I was so impressed with my Emp 400. I wanted CO2 so I needed to dump the Emp. I went with the Fluval 304, easy to set up, has three baskets to use for media. My tank has 4 angles, 2 swords, 1 butterfly and 2 botias. No trace of nitrates or amonia and all I use for bio media is the stuff that came with the Fluval.

[cpr4cpu]

well, perhaps I am doing it all wrong, but I have an emperor 400 with peat in the extra chamber, and I inject CO2 into the tank as well, even with the surface turbidity.

My plants grow just fine. What you need is plant food and light. CO2 will affect the speed and frequency the plants will require fertilizers more than anything. I add Flourish Iron, nitrAte, phosphate, potassium, trace elements and root tabs to my tank and my swords are growing well, the java fern is a forest, and the algae is minimal. So, I don't think the Emperor is cutting my CO2 down as bad as you might think it would, just don't inject the CO2 into the emperor, instead use a DIY CO2 reactor (powerhead with gravel vac model (http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/diy_reactor.htm) is very good, and downright affordable).

[wantsome48066]

i dont have a planted tank but i have a magnum 350 with the same size tank and fish with simalar requirements. ive done a lot of research on planted tanks and plan on swicthing over. do you have bio wheels on your magnum? if not i strongly recomend them for biological filtration and i would use that media container for chemical filtration. i would fill it 3/4 of the way with good carbon and 1/4 with peat moss. another good way of adding biological filtraion is put a fluidized sand filter by lifeguard inline with your mangum. i have a fluidized sand filter and biowheels running off my magnum with no under gavel filter in my tank and i have rams breeding. my tap water is very hard and i had a rough time keeping rams at first. but i found the better bio filtration the lower ph because the nitifing bactria release acids that lower it i plan on useing the same system an my planted tank

[odessa]

For a planted tank the bio wheels are out if you are doing co2. Biological filtration is less of an issue with plants in the tank as long as they are growing well. Carbon is also out with a planted tank as it will adsorb some vital trace elements including iron. peat in the filter, I would not do this, It will cause discoloration and screwy test results, you would be unable to tell how much co2 ppm you have in the tank with peat tannins in the water column as it affects your ph readings, use it under your substrate where it will not get into the water column. I have a magnum 350 with only bio balls in media container and am also injecting co2 into the intake and getting around 24-30ppm co2.

edit: I have never heard of nitrifying bacteria lowering ph. Do you have any references to this? I would like to read them. If you are using peat in you filter this is more likely to lower ph than nitrifying bacteria. Better yet co2 will lower ph More effectively and with better control than peat.

[wantsome48066]

its no exaggeration to say that the condition of a aquarium depends on the perfomance of its biological filter. when the filters mircoorginoism are funtioning well the water is crystal clear and there is no algal growth. the chemical reation that expresses the oxidation prosses carried out by nitrobacteria witch convert harmfull ammonia and into harmless nitrate is NH3 NO2 NO3 the bacteria that converts ammonia (NH3) into nitrite (NO2) is called nitrosomonas and the bacteria that converts that into nitrate (NO3) is called nitrobactor. it is said the remaining nitrate is about 70 times less poisonous than the nitrite but if enough accumulates in the water it can become harmfull therefore it is always necessary to change the water even when useing a top of the line filter. the filter that can completely dispose of nitrates has nt been built yet. to determine the nitrate and nitrite levels of the water there are both analog and data meters and chemical reagents. the latter are much less expensive if a little incovenient. A GOOD ESTIMATE OF THESE NITRATE LEVELS CAN BE MADE FROM THE PH LEVEL AS WELL. AS THE LEVEL OF NITRATES INCREASES THE PH DECREASES AND WATER THAT IS HIGH IN NITRITES WILL HAVE A HIGH PH. IF THE PH HITS 5.0 THEN ITS LIKELY THAT THE NITRATE LEVEL IS HIGH. THE PH IS AFFECTED BY TWO THINGS THE FIRST IS THAT NITRATES THEMSELVES ARE ACIDS THE SECOND IS THAT WHEN NITROBACTERIA OXIDIZE ORGANIC MATERIALS THEY CONSUME OXYGEN.
BY TAKASHI AMANO THE WORLD BEST ON PLANTED AQUARIUMSA
AS YOU CAN SEE IVE DONE MY HOMEWORK
ps i have hard tap water here in michigan around 7.8 after adding the lifeguard filter i was able to get it down to 6.5

[RTR]

I believe, or hope, that the translation from Amano suffered significantly in the process.

Odessa - nitrification is an acid generating, or alkali-consuming process. For evey milliequivalent of NH3 oxidized to nitrate, two milliequivalents of carbonate are consumed. Thus the process itself eats natural buffering and results in lower pH. You can look up the details on The Krib. I also mentioned it the rather heavy technical note on nitrogen balance:

http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/nitrobal.html

PS: Nitrosomas and Nitrobacter are no longer considered significant in FW tanks. search for Dr. Tim's Hovanec's work for the detail.

PPS: Nitrification can and will contribute to algae growth. Algae may prefer ammonia, but will make do with nitrate if titers are high (over 10-15ppm).

PPPS: At pH significantly below 6, say from 5.5 down, normal nitrification bacteria stop metabolizing.

[odessa]

I stand corrected thanks for information, However I add one half a teaspoon of kno3 to my tank twice a week one after a water change and once mid week I have never notice a change in my Ph level when adding enough kno3 to give my tanks 9.07 ppm of nitrate which bottoms out to 0 in between dosings. So if what your say is correct my Ph level should decrease directly after dosing. It holds steady at 7.0 my water comes out of the tap at 7.4. I still believe plants that are growing well will out compete the nitrifying bacteria. I have started tanks with plants and never seen the so called cycle.

p.s. Looks like you bumped the caps lock key on your keyboard.

[RTR]

Odessa - you are correct, nitrification (ammonia to nitrite to nitrate) is an alkali-using process, and in tanks with low KH (and insufficient water changes) will reduce the pH. The nitrate itself does not, just the process of generating it from reduced forms of nitrogen.

My experience matches yours on the plants out-competing bacteria business as well. I see the same thing in my tanks, so don't understand why so many folks think (have they checked?) that bacterial filters will "compete" with plants - in my tanks, if they are competing, they lose. The plants win easily.