Well, my 4 Zebras Danios & 2 sucker fish have made it this far. I've finally got my ammonia readings, which are about 2.0 - 2.5.(System 12-12gallon tank) No nitrites yet. I've read that you should let the ammonia spike then decline back to 0 before doing a water change and a friend whom has a 10 gallon says I should just go ahead and change the water/sipon the gravel. My water is clear, there's a little water oder, but I assume it's from the establishing of the bacteria. The 21st it will be 4 weeks I've had the fish in the tank, I'm ready to do a water change and go get a couple Cory cats. Should I wait?, should I change my water? or should I watch my ammonia spike and wait for it to decline before I change my water?
3rd week of cycle. Need input
- Thread starter ACAquaman
- Start date
Since you have fish, do the water change. Do not get anymore fish, since you have chosen to do a cycle with fish, keep it to a minimum amount of fish. Once the cycle is complete (Your ammonia and nitrItes are at 0) then you can start adding fish, slowly. If you do it quickly your tank will go through a mini cycle.
Water changes during a fish cycling are a must. You will hear that this will starve the bacteria, but this is a myth. As long as you are getting detectable levels, even less then 1, there is still more ammonia present than the current population of bacteria need to live and reproduce. If you don't do water changes, you'll damage the fish even more.
Do not add more fish until both the ammonia and nitrite readings are 0, and then add fish slowly, with monitoring and water changes during the weeks that follow as the bacteria bed adjusts to the increased food supply.
Do not add more fish until both the ammonia and nitrite readings are 0, and then add fish slowly, with monitoring and water changes during the weeks that follow as the bacteria bed adjusts to the increased food supply.
I agree, and would suggest you do sufficient water changes to keep ammonia below 1 ppm and nitrite below .5 ppm.
Jim
Jim
Thanks, Still A bit confused "LONG"
I went to the LFS had the water tested Ammonia between 2.0/3.0(No nitrites yet) I was still told to let the Ammonia spike, establish nitrites and complete the cycle before I do my water change, the LFS worker advised me it might be next week the nitrites form and the complete cycle in possible two more weeks. I wasn't told not to do a water change. I still might do a 25% CHANGE AS SUGGESTED BY THIS FORUM, with out siphoning the bottom (CORRECT). Now my confusion:{Wouldn't changing the water prolong the complete fishcycle. I mean if I change my water now, the ammonia will lower, then rise at which time I do another water change therefore not giving the nitrites time to establish or prolonging the cycle into nitrates and completing the cylcle. How much longer would it take to establish my complete cycled take if I keep changing the water? I'm just debating changeing the water, I want to complete the cycle so I can add more fish.
I went to the LFS had the water tested Ammonia between 2.0/3.0(No nitrites yet) I was still told to let the Ammonia spike, establish nitrites and complete the cycle before I do my water change, the LFS worker advised me it might be next week the nitrites form and the complete cycle in possible two more weeks. I wasn't told not to do a water change. I still might do a 25% CHANGE AS SUGGESTED BY THIS FORUM, with out siphoning the bottom (CORRECT). Now my confusion:{Wouldn't changing the water prolong the complete fishcycle. I mean if I change my water now, the ammonia will lower, then rise at which time I do another water change therefore not giving the nitrites time to establish or prolonging the cycle into nitrates and completing the cylcle. How much longer would it take to establish my complete cycled take if I keep changing the water? I'm just debating changeing the water, I want to complete the cycle so I can add more fish.
It really won't prolong it that much more. I have a tank that both ammonia and nitrite spiked in (newly set up too) after I added my fish. I have been doing 30% water changes daily and it's only taken a week for everything to start settling back down.
It's very important to do a water change when you are doing a cycle with fish. If you don't, they are even more likely to get sick. You would also be putting them at more risk for ammonia poisoning, which is basically where their gills start burning from all the ammonia and they have difficulty breathing. As long as you only siphon out water, your bacteria will continue to grow well, so the water change is not going to hurt anything, it's only going to help.
It's very important to do a water change when you are doing a cycle with fish. If you don't, they are even more likely to get sick. You would also be putting them at more risk for ammonia poisoning, which is basically where their gills start burning from all the ammonia and they have difficulty breathing. As long as you only siphon out water, your bacteria will continue to grow well, so the water change is not going to hurt anything, it's only going to help.
Your ammonia is extremely high. I don't really understand why you haven't seen deaths yet, but if you leave it that high you will. If you happen to have some unusually tough fish that manage to pull through anyway, permanent damage is being done to their gills. If water changes meant that the cycle was going to last an extra two weeks they'd be worth it.
But they don't. Water changes will not increase cycling time.
The bacteria are not free-floating. They are living on things like the filter media, the glass, the substrate. Removing water doesn't remove bacteria in meaningful numbers.
If there is any detectable ammonia, then there is more than the bacteria are able to handle. If there is more than they can handle then they'll continue to expand their population. Picture a party where someone has put out very good food. The people near the buffet can eat 10 items a minute, but the cook is putting out 40 items a minute. More people notice and come over to the table, but still they can only handle 15 items per minute. The table fills up and becomes messy and crowded, plates piled dangerously high. Servers begin to remove some of the extra food, deciding to limit the total number of portions at the table -- never more than 50. The cook keeps putting out 40; the crowd eats 20, then 25, then 30 items per minute. After a while the servers can slow down the rate at which they remove the excess, but there is always plenty of food for the crowd that is growing around the table. When the crowd is able to handle the food at the same rate at which it is generated, the cycle is established and the servers need only remove the dirty dishes as they begin to accumulate (that is, do their regular water changes).
Do you know your KH and pH? Levels that high that aren't producing fatalities may mean very low pH water. The cycling process will acidify the water over time, so pH and KH can change over time. As the acids build up they'll make the ammonia less toxic, but will also suppress the bacteria and extend cycle time. A pH crash can extend your cycle indefinitely. Water changes can help avoid this.
High ammonia levels can suppress the development of the nitrite-eaters, slowing down the cycle. Water changes can help avoid this.
Leaving the levels that high is dangerous for the fish.
Lowering them is not bad for the bacteria. It might even be good for them.
But they don't. Water changes will not increase cycling time.
The bacteria are not free-floating. They are living on things like the filter media, the glass, the substrate. Removing water doesn't remove bacteria in meaningful numbers.
If there is any detectable ammonia, then there is more than the bacteria are able to handle. If there is more than they can handle then they'll continue to expand their population. Picture a party where someone has put out very good food. The people near the buffet can eat 10 items a minute, but the cook is putting out 40 items a minute. More people notice and come over to the table, but still they can only handle 15 items per minute. The table fills up and becomes messy and crowded, plates piled dangerously high. Servers begin to remove some of the extra food, deciding to limit the total number of portions at the table -- never more than 50. The cook keeps putting out 40; the crowd eats 20, then 25, then 30 items per minute. After a while the servers can slow down the rate at which they remove the excess, but there is always plenty of food for the crowd that is growing around the table. When the crowd is able to handle the food at the same rate at which it is generated, the cycle is established and the servers need only remove the dirty dishes as they begin to accumulate (that is, do their regular water changes).
Do you know your KH and pH? Levels that high that aren't producing fatalities may mean very low pH water. The cycling process will acidify the water over time, so pH and KH can change over time. As the acids build up they'll make the ammonia less toxic, but will also suppress the bacteria and extend cycle time. A pH crash can extend your cycle indefinitely. Water changes can help avoid this.
High ammonia levels can suppress the development of the nitrite-eaters, slowing down the cycle. Water changes can help avoid this.
Leaving the levels that high is dangerous for the fish.
Lowering them is not bad for the bacteria. It might even be good for them.
ACAquaman, you are getting good advice. Your fish will appreciate lower ammonia and nitrite levels. I won't reiterate what everyone has said, but they are correct that you won't lengthen the cycle if you change water.
You are now far enough into this hobby to realize that many/most employees of pet stores know very little about keeping fish. What they do know is often incorrect or badly out of date. Much of what they will tell you is designed to convince you of the need for some corrective product or miracle elixir that will "solve all your problems." A healthy dose of skepticism when receiving advise from these individuals will serve you well.
Now change some water and give those fish a break!
Jim
You are now far enough into this hobby to realize that many/most employees of pet stores know very little about keeping fish. What they do know is often incorrect or badly out of date. Much of what they will tell you is designed to convince you of the need for some corrective product or miracle elixir that will "solve all your problems." A healthy dose of skepticism when receiving advise from these individuals will serve you well.
Now change some water and give those fish a break!
Jim
Thanks!
I'm changing the water today, I will most like do a 30 to 40% change. The water has been treated and is seating outside to warm up. Thanks for the great advise, that food example was funny but I got the point. the fish are doing well. As for my PH it's still attends to rise to 7.2 I occasionally lower it to get it closer to neutral . I've also read that it's better to just leave the PH alone. Well, Thanks again and I'll post pictures when I figure it out how, Later.
I'm changing the water today, I will most like do a 30 to 40% change. The water has been treated and is seating outside to warm up. Thanks for the great advise, that food example was funny but I got the point. the fish are doing well. As for my PH it's still attends to rise to 7.2 I occasionally lower it to get it closer to neutral . I've also read that it's better to just leave the PH alone. Well, Thanks again and I'll post pictures when I figure it out how, Later.