Confused on Filtration

[DKiM128]

Hey, I've been reading posts after posts, and many websites. I understand everything else excpt for one thing. FIltration unit. There chemical, biological, and mechanical filtration units. How do I make my tank have all 3. And if I have a undergravel filtration unit, how do i put it under my gravel. I'm just really confused, I read a website that gave some a lot of details, but that ended up confusing me more.

[Andy16]

Ok, many filters have the 3 stage filtration. most cannister filters you can chose your media. Power filters like marineland penguins and emperors have 3 stage also. Mechanical-Picks up floating debris, or bigger things, Chemical-Removes harmful chemicals from the water, biological-something that the good bacteria can colonize on to break down nitrites,nitrates, and ammonia. In a powerfilter, like the penguins, the media is a pad attached to a plastic cage type thing holding the chemical media. Then the water passes under a bio-wheel that hte bacteria colonizes on, biological filtration. As for teh UGF, most people dont use then anymroe, but some still do. It is just a plate taht you put in the bottom of your tank. Then you put the gravel over it. A tube comes from the ugf and is attached to a powerhead. This sucks water through hte gravel to make bigger bacteria colonies. This is another form of biological filtration. It would be a lot easier if you had a good example of teh filters. SOme one probably nows a good website to explain it.


HTH

[carpguy]

Most filters handle more than one aspect of filtration.

There are solids that will collect in the tank. Some of these are removed by the water change siphon, others are caught in filter sponges and various types of strainers (filter floss, etc). That's mechanical filtration. Mechanically removing stuff.

There are the family of nitrogen compounds that begin with the fish themselves but are toxic to them: ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Bacteria are cultivated in the tank that break these compounds down into ever less harmful forms. These bacteria live throughout the tank, but the conditions that favor them can be created in a variety of ways. That's biological filtration. Relying on biological processes to detoxify wastes.

Aside from the nitrogen compounds, there are other chemicals that are introduced into the water in a variety of ways. Siphoning out water where they're becoming concentrated and replacing it with clean water is a simple way to remove them in many cases. In other cases we sometimes choose to add some other chemical that will bind with the ones in the tank and help us export them by, for instance, holding them in a carbon pad. This is typically a more targeted type of filtration, used when needed.

Most filters can do all three. A canister or an HOB does mechanical and biological and can be set up to also do chemical. In a UGF, the gravel becomes a large biofilter and the siphon becomes critical for mechanically exporting solids. Biowheels are a type of return that tries to optimize conditions for bacteria. There are a bunch of other types as well.

Some folks will use different filters and try to tailor them to suit their needs or wants. I might decide that the plants are hoovering enough nitrogen out of my tank that I don't really need to push my canister to do a lot of biological work and set it up with more mechanical media, etc.

You'd generally want to install a UGF (Under Gravel Filter) before adding the gravel. Cart after horse.

HTH

[125gJoe]

I hope this webstie helps you some more...
There are pictures of different types of filters too.
Try NOT to get or use an UnderGravel Filter -- there are better filters to buy. Especially if you want to keep live aquarium plants (I hope you do....)..

Here's the link, click on it: FILTERS (http://madhunag.tripod.com/filters.html)

[DKiM128]

Lets say for filtration, I could buy a filtration unit that combines all 3? So then I won't have to buy all sepearte ones? Please list a couple for 10 gallon tank, 30 gallon and a 55 gallon tank. I want to each of them to have a filtration system, with live plants and such.

[carpguy]

I guess you skipped over the part where I wrote
Most filters can do all three. A canister or an HOB does mechanical and biological and can be set up to also do chemical.
HOB just stands for Hang On Back. Does bio and mechanical. Add a carbon pad if know of a reason you want to add one temporarily and you've got chemical (you don't really need chemical long term). Canister does both as well, can be outfitted for chemical.

Pretty much any general use filter you come across will do the trick.

I like Aquaclear for an HOB, Eheims for a canister (I'd probably go Fluval if I was trying to save a buck). Others will differ.

There are different price points, quality levels, and applications. It sort of depends on what you want to do and what you want to spend.

[Andy16]

CArpguy is right about the fitlers. Most all coem with all 3 nowadays. UGF are an exception, they only do biological. I wouldnt use a UGF. If you want more choices of media you would want a cannister filter, such as and eheim, fluval, or rena filstar. All 3 of these make good filters. HOB filters are also know as power filters. SOme good powerfilters are marinelands emperor and 170. Different filters have have different gph. You awnt a turnover rate of 10-11 times an hour. SO for the ten gallon, you would want a filter taht has 100 gph ect.

HTH

[Paul]

From having read a lot of posts on Aquaria Central forums, here's my take. There are three kinds of filtration:

- Biological - This is the only one that really matters. You gotta have those good bacteria living on your filter (or wherever it is that they live) to counteract ammonia and nitrite.

- Mechanical - I think this means filtering out big hunks of garbage floating in your tank - though I'm not really sure whether big hunks of garbage are actually bad for fish. Seems more like a cosmetic problem.

- Chemical - This means filtering out chemicals in the water - like if you put in medicine that probably didn't help your fish anyway. In other words, the purpose of chemical filtration is to counteract the bad stuff that you put in the water yourself.

Summary - Only thing that matters is biological filtration. Shouldn't just about any well-established tank have enough good bacteria for this purpose? Am I missing something here?

[RTR]

A very long article series, but it may help:

http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/filterbasics1.shtml

http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/filterbasics2.shtml

http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/filterbasics3.shtml

http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/filterbasics4.shtml

HTH

[Prometheus]

Originally posted by Paul
Summary - Only thing that matters is biological filtration. Shouldn't just about any well-established tank have enough good bacteria for this purpose? Am I missing something here?

You MUST have the mechanical as well. All that fish poop, waste, ect. must be removed from the tank.

A 'well-established' tank will have the 'well-established' bacteria because of the mdeia / surface that it lives on... be it gravel, a bio-wheel, bioballs, plastic army men, filter floss.......

A good setup, with a proper bio filter(s) (whatever your choice(s) are) will be able to handle a sudden spike in your bio-load... be it from over feeding, dumping in more fish ect. Not having the proper area/size/ surface material ect. will make it harder for that bacteria to colonize and/or grow in size should the load increase...

Personally I have two penguin 330's with the bio-wheels and several bio-balls in the filters plus a UGF.... I also have some messy fish which make this necc.

I love my UGF... Of course I wouldn't run a UGF if I didn't vacumm it every single week... it is a crud storage device that has the potential to ruin your tank if it's not well maintained...

[SayersWeb]

Originally posted by Prometheus
Personally I have two penguin 330's with the bio-wheels and several bio-balls in the filters plus a UGF.... I also have some messy fish which make this necc.That seems like massive overkill for a 55 gallon tank. Why even bother with the UG when you have two Penguin 330s? Have you found problems with high ammonia or nitrites in the past that show a need for the additional biological filtration the UG provides?

[Prometheus]

Originally posted by SayersWeb
That seems like massive overkill for a 55 gallon tank. Why even bother with the UG when you have two Penguin 330s? Have you found problems with high ammonia or nitrites in the past that show a need for the additional biological filtration the UG provides?

Originally, I was just going to have a penguin 330 and UGF... I 'inherited' some fish shortly after I setup the tank, and was concerned about my ultimate bio / waste load for the fish I'm keeping in there... Thats when (just recently) I added the second 330...

Since my tank would have gravel in it anyway, I figured why not just leave the UGF in and put it to use (no sense in taking out now)...

I was going to just add a pen. 180 or something, but figured I might as well just buy another 330 ( not too big a dif. on price)...

Ultimately my setup would have been at little different but as the chips fell, this is how it turned out... And since it's working perfectly, I'm not going to change it anytime soon...

When I get a bigger tank (a year or so from now, 125-150gal.), I'll move the two 330's to it (in stages of course) and use a fluval 404 or something similar with them, then set the 55 up with an emp 400 w/ UGF... I plan on keeping the 55 lightly stocked ultimately... heck that was the plan for this one originally... ah well :cool:

[SayersWeb]

Originally posted by Prometheus
Since my tank would have gravel in it anyway, I figured why not just leave the UGF in and put it to use (no sense in taking out now)... I wonder if weekly vacuuming causes extra stress on the fish, both with water condition changes and just the intrusion factor/stress they expereince while the maintenance is being done.


I'm getting two 55 gallon tanks on Monday and plan on a single 330 in each. I was afraid two would cause way too much water churning in the narrow tanks. What's the current like in your 55 with the two 330s? Any whirlpools going on? :)

At less than $21 a piece, I would consider using two 330s on each tank if they didn't roll the water too much.

[RTR]

All of my FO tanks are fully vacuumed weekly, and have been for decades. The myth of that disturbance being stressful to the fish is just that, myth. Leaving debris and waste in the tank with lowering effects on water quality is IMHO & IME far more stressfu to the fish.

When considering options, always select the one involving cleaner water over any which have the potential for lower water quality.

[SayersWeb]

Originally posted by RTR
All of my FO tanks are fully vacuumed weekly, and have been for decades. The myth of that disturbance being stressful to the fish is just that, myth. Leaving debris and waste in the tank with lowering effects on water quality is IMHO & IME far more stressfu to the fish.

When considering options, always select the one involving cleaner water over any which have the potential for lower water quality. RTR - If the bio filtration system is working properly in the tank, then why would water quality conditions be lowering if vacuuming is not done each week? Shouldn't waste and debris be broken down properly even if you do water changes every few weeks?

I'm asking so that I can understand the process better, not to question your judgement or experience (which has proved to be excellent and a great help to me).

Thanks!

[RTR]

Biofiltration is our tanks refers to one series of bacterial actions: the oxidation of ammonia to nitrite; then the oxidation of nitrite to nitrate. Period. How about the organics - hormones, pheromones, left-over food (whether uneaten or excreted undigested), cyclic compounds, decaying plant materials if planted, waste matter (feces), etc., almost endlessly. If you remove any significant quantity of organic particulate material by vacuuming, that is that much material which will not end up as dissolved contaminants in the water column after infusoria and bacteria other than the nitrifiers have digested it. Nitrogen is only one form of water quality degradation. It just happens to be one that is easy to measure. Conventional organics and cyclic compounds are generated in the tanks and only laboratories can test and measure for these - but that in no way means they are harmless. We harp on nitrogen because we can use it in unplanted tanks as a measure of the general level of pollution. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that is it the only "bad' material generated in the tank. It just happens to be an easy test, no much more. It is nitrogen plus all the rest that together degrade water quality.

[Leopardess]

Yup, my tanks get vaccumed weekly or twice a week. The fish get used to it (if they ever were afraid of it to begin with). Its really no different than sticking your hands in to trim plants.

Yah, water quality can be good while having extra "gunk" in the gravel. Vaccuming helps remove big old honking pieces of poo that fall in the gravel, any dying plant leaves, excess food, etc. Its all stuff you don't want decaying in the tank. Better to remove it anyway. Not too much different than it getting mechanically removed by the filter, except you wont have the organic wastes still in the tank.

[SayersWeb]

Thanks for the info! :bowing: