How does this sound for a salt setup?

[Mr.Jingles]

30 gallon

AC 200
Power Head (dont know gph, but its running in my 50 right now)
20 lbs LR
3-4 inches of aragonite sand

2 19 watt PC bulbs
double flou strip light (36")

no corals

1-2 clowns
1-2 damsels
2 cleaner shrimp
some hermit crabs and snails (dont know how many)
and 1-2 jawfish (I need to research these, so any info on them would be appreciated)

[ChilDawg]

Clowns are damsels, and are also somewhat aggressive...only a pair of Clowns would fit well in a 30g...

Recommendations from Tullock's Barron's Book:

Mandarin Fish, Spotted Mandarin, Common/Purple Firefish, Purple Dottyback, Neon Wrasse, Coral Goby, Longnose Hawkfish, Fuzzy Dwarf Lionfish, Coral Beauty Dwarf Angel, Bicolor Dwarf Angel, Herald's Dwarf Angel, Bicolor or Canary Blennies...

Clowns and damsels will fight...only a few fish are compatible in such a small tank, and the Mandarins listed above are listed as most appropo...I don't know if Jawfish would work or not. I'm just going by these as the best suggestions made by Tullock!

I would suggest that you purchase Tullock's "Clownfishes and Sea Anemones" and maybe try to emulate the lagoon setup shown in there.

You might be short on LR for such a tank. I think that the recommendation is a lb./gallon...the (soon-to-be) live sand might make up for that, though.

[MonoSebaelover]

Skip the Mandarin Dragonet Chil, they need a MINIMUM of 125 gallons and a very well established tank (over a year) to have any amount of success in captivity. Agree, two Clowns and two Damsels would start World War 3. Jawfish are good but until they find a little burrow they will dig many trenchs under the rocks which may unsettle them causing them to colapse on the Jaw. As long as you have secure live rock they should be fine. Also they need at least 4 inches of varying grades of aragonite to be happy. Hope this helps and good luck.

[ChilDawg]

No Dragonets. Check.

I should have mentioned that they definitely need for the LR to be well-established, and may never take to supplemental feedings...in fact, they may die of starvation in the prescence of an overabundance of food. I did not know about the 125 requirement, but that makes sense just from the standpoint of establishing copepod populations...

[BrianH]

While I will agree that mandarins need a mature tank, I would also like yo say that I keep 1 in a 50 gal reef. I've had it for about 8 or 9 months now and it has grown well. I don't know what the minimum size tank for these guys is, I can say that I've had success in a 50gal with 75 lbs of LR.

Brian

[ChilDawg]

In this case, the minimum tank size (20 gallons, Scott W. Michael) for mandarins needs to take a little more into account...like how much LR is in its tank...conceivably you could have one waste away in a 15000 gallon FO tank...but it's good to know a baseline for when a hobbyist has had success with a particular mandarin, so I thank you for that, Brian.

[Mr.Jingles]

Mandarin gobies need 125? they aren't very big. my LFS has some displays with mandarins and they are not 125 gallon tanks.

[ChilDawg]

They don't for space requirements, but they need a ton of live rock that has been well-cultured with copepods and the like, since they don't always take to supplemental food...

[mogurnda]

Great fish, but escape artists. The tank has to have a tight-fitting lid or you'll find it on the floor.

Overall, your plan looks good.

I might be tempted to add another 10 lbs live rock, but you'll probably be fine.

Damsels can be aggressive, so pick the species carefully (trimaculatus is apparently a really bad choice). My vote is always for getting two juvenile captive-reared clowns and let them become a pair. Dottybacks are also beautiful, appropriate for tank size and available captive-bred. Damsels, clowns and dottybacks will tend to take over a small tank completely, so mixing probably won't work.

The cleaners will be great, and you will get baby shrimp to feed the fish and LR inhabitants. Any two cleaners will make eggs when they are adults.

Forget that anyone mentioned mandarins, they are best in mature tanks with a lot of live rock, as described above.

[Mr.Jingles]

how does 30# of live rock fit in a 30 anyways? is it as heavy as those calcium based rocks that have lots of large holes in them that you find in african cichlid tanks?

I have a good deal on well established LR from my dad's friend. $3/#. So I'm flexible, but I just dont like spending money. I could do 30#

So mandarins are a goal for later on. Im still not sure if you guys agree with a mandarin in a 30 (given its well established).

Im definately looking into Jaw fish cause they are just so cool. They just are. But they are kind expensive. maybe expensive is all relative to you guys.

but here's what I got set up right now:

40lbs aragonite (3 inches)
2 large chunks of base rock (that african cichlid type rock I talked about earlier)
the salt water is mixed up. haven't checked salinity cause my brother and I just put the stuff together tonight.
1 hagen 550 powerhead
1 penguin equivalent
AC200

[OrionGirl]

If the mandarin is the only fish that will eat pods, in a very well established 30 with supplemental feeding, it might make it. No guarantee. I wouldn't try it, and if there are other fish that will compete for pods, I definitely would not attempt it.

Lace rock can be used in combination with live rock--the encrusting algae and such will colonize pretty much any surface they can, and the porous rocks will also harbor the good bacteria.

[Adam Kasycz]

Hi there Evorybody i am just posting to report success with clowns and damsels I have a fifty gallon fish only with live rock and cleaners and a starfish I have three damsels a gray one (not sure of the name) a pink damsel (thats what the pet store called it) And a domino but hes still young. as well as two clarky clowns and they have been together for about a month and a half and they are all doing great the only problems i have had are the grey damsel being mean to my firefish and him nipping at the star fish a few times i also have a tang (yellow) who is not bothered by anybody (i bet its because hes bigger than them all)


So i just thaught i would share that

Adam Kasycz :D

[OrionGirl]

Are you suggesting that because they haven't killed each other within 2 months of beign together they are fine to have in the same tank?

I could keep a baby moose in my back yard for 2 months--that doesn't mean it would last there for it's entire, normal life span.

[Mr.Jingles]

k. got 30# of live rock

I have a mushroom coral on it and some "pest anenomes". personally, if an anenome can live in my tank, thats fine with me, just as long as the fish dont die. hopefully the mushroom thing wont die.

anyways. all I need to add is fish.

here are my perimeters:

SG 1.021
pH 7.9
ammonia 0-1
nitrites 0
temp 78
116 watts (76 pc, 40 NO)

this is from a freshwater test kit, so I dont know how accurate it is.

here are fish I want to keep

1 jaw fish
1 fire fish
2 cleaner gobies

hows it sounds?

[OrionGirl]

You say that now, but when that anemone has spread all over and kill other corals and stings the fish, you will not be so forgiving. If it is an aipatasia, this will happen. It's just a matter of time. I felt the same way about 2 in our FO tank. No biggie, I thought...The trigger might even eat them, so who cares.

After 6 months of just having 2, all the sudden there were 10. 3 months later, we are still finding the occasional strays and treating them with kalkwasser paste. Remove it now--it will save you annoyance down the line.

Get a marine kit--many of the test kits are not at all accurate for SW.

Make sure the gobies are taking prepared foods before purchase. Many types of cleaner will not, and starve to death in a tank. Also, be sure your tank is well covered--firefish are notorious for the efforts in carpet surfing.

[BrianH]

Sounds good so far. I agreee with OG and would research the anenomes and kalk them if they are aiptasia. I also agree with your needing SW test kits. I hope you plan on waiting a while before adding anything else to your tank. Get the kits and test for a week or so(since it sounds like you bought 30lbs of cured LR) to make sure you have no ammonia or nitrites before adding anything. I would alos raise the SG to between 1.023 - 1.025 to keep the mushroom happy.

Brian

[Mr.Jingles]

well, im pretty sure they are aptasia. a few seem to move slowly accross their rocks. others stick in place. some just disconnect and float elsewhere.

question about the mushroom: I have a redish brown type that has green on it (like algae or something). Do I need to feed this type of mushroom? I also have a white type that is chillin underneath this flat piece of rock. I dont know if its almost dead, or if its a different type. but it seems to be taller and have a smaller mushroom proportionally than the other one. the brownish one is about 3.5cm and the white one is about 1cm. would this type need anything different? there is also a more clear looking mushroom that is pinkish. it sits real close to the rock. its about 1.5-2cm.

so take out the anenomies. got it.

I wasn't planning on getting any fish anytime soon. probably 2 weeks to however many months I feel inclined to wait.

[mogurnda]

Hard to say much about the mushrooms without pictures. If they really are mushroom corals (corallimorpharians), they do eat, but get much of their "food" via photosynthesis. The amount of light you have looks like it will probably be OK. I would worry if they aren't expanding much, or don't start to spread when your conditions settle down.

Another nag to get marine test kits. You can use many marine tests on freshwater, but the salts in SW interfere with a lot of FW kits.

How good is your lid? You have 2 excellent escape artists (firefish, jawfish) on your list.

[Mr.Jingles]

I have a glass lid with those plastic stips that slide onto the back and can be cut to let appliances through. the only large opening is where the AC 200 sits. there is a waterfall coming out of that, so I dont know if it would be something to worry about.

btw, Im just looking at fish that I think are cool. anything not freshwater like is cool to me. so many damsels aren't really something I look into. blennies are sweet, but I would rather have a jaw fish than blennies. cleaner gobies are small, and no freshwater fish clean other fish or set up little stations to await other fish like these guys. firefish are very pretty looking and are gobies (which are cool).

basically, Ive got some good info on Jawfish at hand, dont know much about firefish, and cleaner gobies aren't really something I know too much about either. I have read up on them tho. So Im still configuring my ideas and learning new things.

the mushrooms open up pretty good. they have a nice green sheen on them. At least the large one does. I have plenty of circulation. if they are really mushrooms, what would I need to feed them?