you'll make my day if you can help me figure this out

[yvonnedono]

I have two issues/questions:

1) I currently have water from my outside tap in the tank. Should I switch to using water from my indoor tap (which runs through a water softner). It is a sodium type tank. I could use Potassium instead.

2) I have black spotty algae on plants/rocks. I have lots of bright green spotty algae on glass. Plants also have some rusty/white large scarred areas and curled leaves. Some of the plants are still growing quite a bit though.

Here are my specs:

Tank: 65 Gallon; lit with 160 watts (4 40Watt Coralife PlantGrow Tubes about 11 horus a day). Temperature: 78; Filtered through carbon filter; just a few plants for now; neons, tetras; some algae eaters; orange livebearers in the molly family (can't recall their name).

The water in my tank currently tests at:
PH: 8.4
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 5-10 ppm (closer to 5)
Nitrite: 0
GH: 304.30
KH: 232.70
I haven't been able to test for Potassium or Phosphorus yet. All the stores around here keep telling me it is not necessary so they do not stock the tests.
I do not add CO2.

The Hardness of the water in my indoor tap is GH 17.9; KH 232.70. This soft water is not the water I am currently using in my acquarium. Just another option for me.....

Any help would be greatly appreciated! I need to get this under control so I can start having fun and really plant up my tank!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[CHINABOY1021]

Keep it simple. remove the carbon from filter.

[29gallonsteve]

First off, your water is hard, not soft...

Your primary issue (based on the info you have provided) is that you are not providing CO2 injection. No one should have anthing over 2 watts per gallon (you have over 3) without injecting CO2...unless you really want an algae tank as opposed to a planted tank...lol

Think of it this way...your plants need everything to be balanced...light, co2, micro/macro nutrients, temp...

If you are missing one, all other 'ingredients' cannot be taken up into the plant.

Check out www.plantedtank.net/forums

Thanks,
Steve

[Glenstorm]

Are you using any fertilizers? The curly scarred leaves may be symptoms of nutrient deficiency. Also, the ferts may help the plants out-compete the algae. this will be a delicate balance to find though without CO2 in the tank. . .

[29gallonsteve]

What, exactly, is a sodium tank?

[MrGoodbytes]

I think he means the water softener uses Na+ (sodium) in exchange for Ca2+ and Mg2+ (calcium and magnesium).
I heard plants do not tolerate much sodium in their water, but I don't how true that is.
My water is also quite hard but my plants are doing really well.

I also agree that CO2 would really help in a situation like yours.

Graeme

[GulfCstAquarian]

Switch your water softener to Potassium instead of Sodium and you've got a perfect source of water. Potassium is one of the most overlooked macronutrients since Nitrates and Phosphates come from fish food and waste. Your hard water will trade Magnesium and Calcium ions for Potassium ions, which will be readily used by your plants.

[Pink Pat]

Aren't Ca and Mg important nutrients as well? I think that trading one for another is going to cause the same problem you have now.

I agree that K is an important and often overlooked nutrient. I believe it is called the universal cation.

But rather than going through all of this, would it not just be a simple matter to collect water before the softner? Some simple plumbing could get you an 'aquarium only' tap source for water. A connection with the Python and you're going to be standing in tall cotton, so to speak.

HTH

PP

[Raithan Ellis]

yvonnedono - I have the same water softener setup you are speaking of, an ion exchange softener system. After much research of my own, I have found it best for me to stick with using rock salt over potassium chloride.

a) Cost: Potassium is over 4x the cost of rock salt per 50lb bag, making it a very expensive choice.

b) Health: We have our grandfather living with us. Potassium is not healthy for elderly people in the quantities they would consume with it being in the water system. I've also confirmed this with his doctor.

c) Aquaria: I've done just fine with my time tested methods of using both direct moderately hard well water in my planted and breeder tanks as well as using water from our softener system. Never had problems with the salt levels affecting plants. The direct well water is 0.4pH higher than the softened, still, nobody seems to mind.

I'm rather happy using my current method, and I still use softened water in my heavily planted tanks. Although due to convenience I use straight well water in my breeders, only because I have a faucet that bypassed the softener in close proximity to the fishroom. After playing with both for a few years, I haven't noticed a difference in how my breeders or plants have reacted. However, keep in mind that I do dose PMDD in my planted aquaria.

If you would decide to bypass the softener system, and still wish to have softer water for the aquariums... you can always, very easily, make a setup that runs the incoming water through a container of peatmoss.

Regards,
Raithan O. Ellis

[GulfCstAquarian]

Mg and Ca are indeed needed by plants. They're actually a macronutrient, like potassium, although most planted tank hobbyists mistake them for being micronutrients. I have found it fairly easy to meet the Mg and Ca needs of my plants with occasional tap water use and via trace element supplementation (Seachem Flourish, Tropica Master Grow, Plantex, etc.). Potassium, on the other hand, is a little more difficult to maintain. K2SO4 is not nearly as readily available as Epsom Salts or calcerous rock. I have to dose Potassium weekly, while I seldom need to dose Mg or Ca.
I simply figured that using the KCl softened water would make dosing Potassium easier. But if the 4x cost or other unusual health factors are an issue then the decision is pretty easy to make.

[wetmanNY]

A lot of information to help yvonnedono is available at www.google.com: search "water softener potassium chloride" --omit the quotation marks.

I'm in general accord with the GulfCoastAquarian: sometimes potassium is actually preferred to sodium-- as in low-sodium diets. Depends on what kind of invalid you are caring for. Potassium is always preferred if you're flushing the wastewater into the aquifer or onto your garden...

A little calcium goes a long way. That's desperately hard water for plants! I agree that CO2 diffusion would help a lot.

[Raithan Ellis]

wetman - The amount of potassium that would be added to the water using potassium chloride to soften, wouldn't it be such a small amount (as far as plants are concerned) that you would still be required to dose K2SO4 in most planted aquaria?

Regards,
Raithan O. Ellis

[GulfCstAquarian]

Originally posted by Raithan Ellis
wetman - The amount of potassium that would be added to the water using potassium chloride to soften, wouldn't it be such a small amount (as far as plants are concerned) that you would still be required to dose K2SO4 in most planted aquaria?

Regards,
Raithan O. Ellis

You raise a really good point to consider. This would definitely depend on how many Mg and Ca ions are found in the water to begin with (for the K ions to exchange). Even in yvonne's hard water, I agree that potassium supplementation might still be necessary to achieve optimal K levels, but I believe the plants should be able to do rather well without any additional K supplementation other than that obtained from the KCl-softened water. And by purchasing bags of KCl for the water softener equipment, potassium supplementation is only a teaspoon of KCl rock salt away.