View Full Version : Breeding Start-up
Guy W
09-07-2003, 12:29 AM
Well there isn't much activity in this forum, but that's going to change pretty soon, even if it's just me posting.
My dad and I setup a small breeding opperation, for clownfish, and we are going to get at it.
Since he has a house and I'm in a condo the setup is at his place but once/if it grows we will move it to a warehouse.
What we have is 5, 29 gallon fish tank on a central sump. Those are going to be the broodstock tanks, 5 pairs to start with. We setup our top off and RO systems, and now we are working on our hatching and grow out systems. But since we are going to have to wait for the fish to start breeding anyway we decided to do that last.
The setup is pretty cool so far. It's small now but once we get good at clowns we will try some other species as well.
I'll post some pictures of the setup when I get a minute.
Guy
Well the systems are totally setup now, lighting has been ordred, and we are working out what we are going to do for skimming.
Since we built a wet dry and we had access to several well established tanks that we already own, we pulled bio media from those tanks to seed our system. We aren't using Live Rock and a DSB because we want to have the fish spawn on ceramic tile surfaces, for easy collection.
To keep the bio media feed we added a pair, well what will hopefully become a pair, of maroon clowns to the system. Right now and probably for a week they are in different tanks, while we monitor the system and they get adjusted. This weekend we will try to introduce them to one another carefully.
I got 2 very different sized clowns. the smaller one is about 1 inch and tank raised, and mostly likely a male. The other is a good 3 inch or better wild caught fish that I'm hoping is a female. It is much darker than the smaller one, and supposedly females darken up as they age. So with luck they will be opposite sexes and the small one will take his role as the submissive male easily.
Once we are sure the system is stable we will be purchasing a couple pairs of false perc's and Amphiprion ephippium (flame back or flame clowns), since we have readily available access to these species in pairs.
Then we will move on to setting up the rotifer and artemia hatchery systems, and larval grow out tanks.
Our first goal was to get the broodstock system modual and up and running, which has been a success. It's modular in the fact that we have the ability to pump in put to a total of 8 tanks in total, simply by drilling out the tank and glueing it in to the open stand pipes.
Our next goal is to get the pairs spawning regularly. Hopefully within the next 3 to 6 months we will have a good schedule.
Then the trick is figuring out how to sell the fish. selling directly to a wholesale/distributor is one option, selling to fish stores direclty is the 2nd, and selling them online direct to hobbiest is the 3rd. I guess that all depends on how many fish we can have on a regular monthly basis. With the possibility of having 1000 fish per month per pair, selling to a wholesaler seems like the only option, however if we are only getting a couple hundred per month in total then selling to stores or direct will probably be the business plan. Only time will tell on that one.
And our long term goal is to breed fish that don't currently propagate in captivity. But that is obviously a 3 to 5 year plan.
Who knows where it will go. But with some hard work and a little luck I think it will be a rewarding project.
gW
mogurnda
09-11-2003, 12:47 PM
When are you starting the rotifer cultures?
Once we have the broodstock system completely up and running with lighting and skimming all setup we will work on the green water, rotifer, and artemia hatchery system. But I don't think we will start actually culturing them until after the pairs start spawning. We will probably do a test run just to make sure we can grow them once it's set up however.
We probably won't try to hatch the first couple spawns. We would rather just make sure all the fish are doing well and try to get them spawning regularly.
But I would imagine we will have the rotifer system built over the course of the next month.
Guy
mogurnda
09-11-2003, 1:22 PM
I'd love to see the setup. Post some photos from time to time.
OrionGirl
09-11-2003, 1:27 PM
Not sure on this one, so just put it down as "Things to consider", but clown biology is dictated by visual and chemical interactions in groups. So, if they are all in one system, you may have hormones from one fish impacting fish in a different tank. I know that this has been documented in predator/prey relationships--prey fish in common water but different tanks from predator fish will display the same reactions as if the predator was in the same tank with them. I don't know if this will hold true to the clowns, or what the impact may be, but I would worry that a dominant female in one tank may supress the fish in other tanks from becoming female.
Just a thought. Carbon filtration would likely remove the hormones from the water, and it might not even be an issue. I'm not sure what professional breeders setups are like; like I said, this is mostly just speculation on my part.
Orion, I hadn't really thought about that situation but it does make a good point. Hopefully good skimming and carbon will solve that problem, should it arise.
Now you've got me parinoid. I guess worst case is each tank gets plumbed to it's own closed filtration system. But that is pretty bad if we have to do that!
thanks for the insight,
Guy
OrionGirl
09-11-2003, 2:04 PM
Before worrying much, check around--there is a lot of info out there about commercial setups. Didn't mean to cause stress!
kreblak
09-11-2003, 2:45 PM
This sounds fascinating, I would love to see some pictures when you get the chance. Good luck! I hope to see this venture succeed!
I did a little research and asked some people on another propagation forum about the connected systems, and aside from the obvious problems of spreading disease through the system and not having control over the parameters of one tank, there are no pitfalls from the breeding stand point. Infact most people have said it's good to have the connected systems because it might spark other fish to start breeding if one fish is breeding and ofcourse the increased total water volume is helpful.
I also found out about some good substitue dry foods you can feed the fry. The first 8 days or so they need rotifers, however there is a product you can use to feed the rotifers instead of having to feed the rotifers phytoplankton green water. And after the fry get to day 8 to 10 you can start feeding them a dry food instead of artemia at every feeding.
Guy
BrianH
09-11-2003, 9:42 PM
Guy,
Have you seen any info regarding feeding the fry cyclop-eeez?
Brian
Guy W
09-11-2003, 10:04 PM
Brain, yes I have been finding that people are feeding Cyclopeeze instead of Artemia to the fry after the rotifer stage.
Right now from what I understand you can do the following, but I'm just learning about this... literally as we speak.
Step 1 - Hatch Clownfish Fry
Step 2 - Fry will eat Rotifers for 7 days up to 2 weeks.
Step 2.5 - You have to feed the rotifers if you want to culture them and not buy them all the time. I thought you had to do with by growing green water phytoplankton. But infact you can feed the rotifers Instant Algea.
http://www.instant-algae.com/aquarium/zooplankton/index.htm
Step 3 - At about 1 week you start feeding Artemia to the fry, which are newly hatched brine shrimp. If the brine shrimp aren't eaten within 12 to 24 hours they will be too big for the fry. On the plus side you can feed the adult brine to your adult clowns.
Or
You can feed the fry Cyclopeeze, which is a freeze dried copeopod, and some feedings of Selcon enriched Artemia.
Thats as far as I've gotten at this point. I don't know at what point you can feed the babies prepared foods. But I think they will eat adult Brine Shimp withing 3 weeks to a month so I would assume you can try frozen foods at that time too.
But I'm learning more.
Guy
BrianH
09-12-2003, 9:31 AM
I recently(this week) started feeding cyclop-eeze to my tank. Let me tell you this stuff is like crack for fish, shrimp & corals. When I add it everything in the tank goes nuts. I think I read somewhere that seahorse fry will eat cyclop-eez, that is why I suggested it as a food source. I also think I read somewhere that clownfish breeders were using the freez dried cyclop to induce mating and then feeding the fry the frozen product because it is smaller and retains more nutrition.
Brian
Originally posted by BrianH
I recently(this week) started feeding cyclop-eeze to my tank. Let me tell you this stuff is like crack for fish, shrimp & corals. When I add it everything in the tank goes nuts. I think I read somewhere that seahorse fry will eat cyclop-eez, that is why I suggested it as a food source. I also think I read somewhere that clownfish breeders were using the freez dried cyclop to induce mating and then feeding the fry the frozen product because it is smaller and retains more nutrition.
Brian
It's good to hear that your fish took to the Cyclop-eeze so well. I actually picked this stuff up at my LFS recommendation last week, not really knowing what it was. I haven't tried feeding it yet but I am looking forward to seeing the positive results.
Guy