Building My LED Light

[traelman]

Hi All................

I'm going to use this as my log for a project that I'm planning, a little backgroud info:

Project- Aquarium Light/Hood (30gl HeX)
Goals- Create a working Light that is both reliable and effective
Factors- $$$ Cost, keep it lowlowlowlow
- Design: I have an electronics backgroud but I've never done this type thing before.
- Equipment: Brand of Led, Driver ( or supply), heat sink
- Specs: Lumens(number at given mA), Color Spectrum , Thermal control

Using these different topics, I'll try to discuss each one using the various info I've gathered already, along with my results.
:idea::idea::idea:

Do Work!!!!!!

[traelman]

Project- Aquarium Light/Hood (30gl HeX)

Just some info on what I'm really trying to do. I recently bought a 30gl Hex aquarium from a friend. It came with everything I needed to get started. Once it was up and running I felt the need to upgrade. After doing some research, it seemed that the existing light was inadaquate and the search for a replacement began. Using info from various aquarium forums, my plan was to replace my old technology flourescent with something a bit newer. The sticking point of this idea is there are no easy, cheap, hightech replacements for my oddball original http://forum.ledcalculator.net/forum/images/emoticons/eusa_doh.gif .

Now what to do!?!?!

On the aquarium forums, the answer is either adapt or DIY, so I decided thats what I would do for this situation. Right now I'm well into the planning stages and have gathered enough info to be extremely dangerous and very costly.

I will try and post some of the planning that I've already done(complete info for this forum).

Do Work!!!

[BoredAgain]

I love DIY, especially lighting.

[1oooop]

kay, one problem tho, IT ONLY WORKS AS A MOON LIGHT WITH A REGULAR LED SET to does practically nothing, BUT make your tank look cool, anyway if you need any help just PM me

also I suggest taking an old computer PSU (power supply) as an LED driver(OLNY FOR WHITE, BLUE, AND GREEN LEDS) use the orange channel(it's all on a link on my first post on the originating thread)

they do a crappy job of plant growth, of course who wants GIGANTIC plants

[traelman]

I still have to disagree with the idea that LED's cant grow plants 1oooop. Take a look at these comparison photos, one is a PC and the other is LEDs. If you are going to use LEDs you have to be very particular about the spec of them. Check this guys link (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/do-yourself-aquarium-projects/1009-diy-led-lighting-via-luxeon-stars.html). He has done quite a few things with LEDs.

[Squawkbert]

Right - get the right LEDs and you're good.
Search - there are other DIY LED threads out there including links to cheap, right LEDs, programs that provide wiring diagrams & resistor specs for a given set of LEDs (you feed LED specs (mA), power supply spec, # LEDs - it does the rest)... if not here, then at APC.

[traelman]

For right now, I'm not to concerned with the physical shape or look of my new tank hood. I do want it to be pleasing to the eye(as mandated by my lovely wife:hearts:), and functional; provide mounting for my light, and a means for preventing desertion of my fish. I have made some basic lay out designs that I think will work.

As far as the lighting portion of the project goes anything better than what I have right now would be great!!! It's not that my current light looks crappy, but I have a single flourescent of 15 W for a 30gl Tank. The math on that's pretty easy .5W/1gl, that just wont do it for most plants, not to mention the fact that my light is about 26 inches from the bottom of my tank. So, for my purposes, I hope to end up with something that is better in quality for; 1.the fishies, 2.The plants that I hope will prosper, 3. The person looking at the tank(namely ME):cheers:.

Something else that should part of my goal for this project is $$$. At first I thought " I dont care how much it costs I'm still going to Do it", but now that I've been doing my research, I've backed off that attitude a little. Since this is my first attempt at this, maybe I shouldn't go "Hog Wild" and blow $200 that I don't really have to blow, so I am going to try and limit myself as much as possible. As of right now, the LEDs that a may use are a total $35, that's for 6 white LEDs (3W/per= 18W), one Blue, and one Red. So using that as a basic start I'm going to try and keep my budget in the $75 range (cheaper is better sometimes!?!?)

That's enough for now, it's Saturday and I've got a Honey Do that awaits.
Have a great weekend PeepS.
:headbang2::headbang2::headbang2:

[1oooop]

okay, one problem IT NEEDS TO BE WATER PROOF or at least resistant
I suggest putting the supply on the ground and just cross the power on wire with the ground permanently

maybe have a timer for it

[1oooop]

so, it seems you have a hood for it, is the hood plastic or metal? because if it's plastic you can drill holes on it metal, same thing but easier to buy a piece of plastic

[Squawkbert]

Unless *all* you want to do through the opening is feed, move it back, closer to the center.

[traelman]

Thanks for the input guys!!!

I plan on making the hood out of wood. It wiil be stand and varnished for protection for the water. The hinged portion is for feeding and routine maintenance, it mimicks the cheap plastic hood that I have now.


:cool2:

[1oooop]

did you get my PM? LOL 10 watts is alot right?

[traelman]

Yea 10000p, I got your pm, and you are right, 10w out of one little LED is huge amount of light. I looked at some of the other specs for that LED and they seem to be pretty good. Did you see the size of the heat sink it came with(HUGE (http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=340)), that baby puts out some heat!!!. Thanks again for the info.

Maybe I'll have time to do a post with my ideas for design and eqipment today. I'm getting more excited about it every day. It's almost time to move from planning to actual DIYing.

[1oooop]

: ) the light produces alot of light in the green section, which is good to plants and the rest is okay for cool lighting for fish, if you want it bluer just get get some blue LEDs, anyway, I'm thinking you may need to but an LED driver from them, maybe not but IDK

It's actually at the max that my current driver can supply(LOL PCU)

[traelman]

I do plan on having some type of "driver" circuit for this project, I just haven't decided what type yet. It seems there are numerous and varied ways to do this also, almost as many as there are different type LEDs available. Right now I'm doing my research on that subject. In other news I think I may have decided on the LEDs themselves.

They are L2K2-MW14-11-BV00 (http://www.componentsuperstore.com/store/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductIdentifier=L2K2MW1411BV 00LUMILEDSLIGHTING9677162). These are based on the Philips Luxeon K2 (http://www.luxeon.com/pdfs/DS51.pdf)emitter. Just for some info, these were tested at 1000mA, resulting in 120 lums. This would give me a total of 720 lums(6x120) and 20.4W of 6500k cool white light (not including the blue and red LEDs I plan on adding). When I have some more time I'll try and explain my choices and give my veiw on LEDs and how they can used in the aquarium world.

Later............

[Cory Keeper]

Ya know, a $20 computer power supply would probably work better, Although I wouldn't trust it with a computer, it should handle LEDs quite easily, and be cheaper than buying who knows how many of these special "drivers". Using the 12v supply would be best, It should be able to handle the current, and should be able to supply enough volts to the LED to be able to string a couple in series, with maybe a resistor.

Now using Ohms law, say the voltage requirement was 3.5 volts, and current being 1000mA or 1A, stringing three in series, 3.5 volts times 3 = 10.5, which means 1.5 volts would need to be dropped at the resistor. Now since Ohms Law states E=IxR (where E=Voltage, I=Current (amps) and R=Resistance) and 1Amp is flowing through the circuit, divide voltage, by current (1.5/1) and you would need a resistor of 1.5 ohms. Now granted one doesn't exist, you would use a 2 ohm, or a 1 ohm resistor, depending if you want it slightly dim and extend the life, or overdrive and shorten life a lil. Now this is assuming voltage is 3.5v, and not higher like 4 or five or something like that. Just remember, when wiring LEDs in series, voltage drops along each LED, so if you had a voltage source of 12 volts, and the LED called for 3v each, you could only have 4 in series, but I would drop it to 3 and add a resistor, to help regulate current and voltage a little.

[1oooop]

if you really want a diagram of one that you can etch your self, make me an inquiry. I'll do it sooner or later, just PM me so I see a purpose to do so.

[traelman]

I have finally made the purchase of my LEDs. These are not the ones that I mentioned in an earlier post though, but they kick a## any way. Say hello to the Endor Rebel - Cool White, Emitter (http://www.luxeonstar.com/endor-rebel-cool-white-emitter-145-lumens-700ma-p-178.php). This is based on the Philips Luxeon Rebel (http://www.philipslumileds.com/products/line.cfm?lineId=19).

I picked up 6 of them for around $40. At there tested rating they will produce 145 lums each. With the 6, that will give me a total of 870 lums. by my calculations the power comsumption will be around 13.23 watts.

Sweeeeet..........

I'm coming up on my summer vacation soon, so hopefully I can finish with the rest of my planning and finally shed light on this project:grinyes:.

[Xythadar]

I don't know what they mean on the website by "Max Continuous Current 350 mA". But maybe someone else knows if 8-10hrs per day is considered continuous.

[traelman]

The max continuous current rating is how much "juice" you are applying to the led.
LEDs work off current (Amps), while other type lights use voltage, which converts to a Wattage rating.
You can have the light on as long as you want, as long as it's not over 350mA. These type LEDs have a life of over 50,000 hours if used properly.

[1oooop]

actually, it's less with more voltage, it rises exponentially with greater voltage , believe me, I had a yellow LED and I did a test on it, one I gave it's correct voltage, the other, I put about 3 volts. The next thing I know, its so hot and changed its color to orange. LEDs are kind of like indicasents, they have a burn area that dissapears when they are bad, I tested one with 12v which fryed it, and I noticed most of the emmiting part of the LED was gone

[Que]

I don't know what they mean on the website by "Max Continuous Current 350 mA". But maybe someone else knows if 8-10hrs per day is considered continuous.

The point thats being made here by Xythadar is if the max continuous rating is what you would be operating the LEDs at and that is 350mA with 80 lumens then 6 LEDs times 80 is 480 lumens of output.

I think if you hooked these up with 700mA for continuous use you'd get a shorter lifespan out of them.

Q

[traelman]

Well I'm back..............

Since I had to stop my mail for a week, I hope that I can get my LEDs Monday.


Thankfully my good friend was able to feed my fish this week!!!!

Thanks Tom...........

I want to tell everyone how much I LOVE my wife, we just had a wonderfull week in OC, MD. Now that we are back home, I am going to get down to business with my project..........

I could not do it without my "Anniversary Gift Card", for Lowes.........
Thanks Steph ................I Love You
:headbang2::headbang2::headbang2::headbang2::headb ang2:

[SuBXeRo]

check out www.oznium.com (http://www.oznium.com) You wont be disappointed. Excellent site, been buying from there for years.

[1oooop]

Welcome Back, you didn't tell us you were leaving... I kinda missed you... BTW, why cool white? I prefer purple with a few whites(enhances color and I think it's good for plants)

[SuBXeRo]

LED's are kind of like incandescents. LED's have a working voltage range usualy +- 2 volts max. A change in color most likely represents the burning of the diode inside. You can always underpower an LED but over powering is when you have issues. They give you a voltage range to work with because power sources vary in voltage output and can have spikes. Its usually best to stay at the recommended voltage because of said instances and you really dont want to burn the diode out. I have popped many LED's in my experience and it ****in scares me everytime i do it. These luxeons are designed to work at 700ma and a decrease in lifespan would be minimal at best since it is in its "working" range.

The max continuous amps is refering to how much current it can handle consistantly. 1000ma was stated as the max, for you to acheive that, you would have to increase the voltage. You want to try and achieve your 145 lumens, you need to put 3.15 volts to achieve the 145 lumens and 700ma current. The max voltage rating is 4, so im assuming that woud produce the 1000ma and max lumen output. Now the luxeon main doc says typical voltage of 3.4 volts to achieve 700ma, i would go with that spec over the rest. Its rally annoying how there are like 10 different versions of specs for the same info.

If i were you, run them in parallel so that that if one burns out, they all dont burn out. Series would work if you put 3 of them inline, but if one goes they all go just like christmas lights.
Now i dont kow how muh further you have gotten, but this is general knowledge for you and everyone else as well, for thos who are newer to this stuff.

btw, those are def good options, what i have been looking for :) i think i might be using those as well, just the tricolor ones for mixing and stuff. Ontop of that, i plan on putting them to dimmer switches :). I like the site your getting them from, better than oznium in this case, woot.

[traelman]

Whats happening 1oooop...
I just got back from vacation at the beach in Ocean City MD. I picked up a weeks worth of mail yesterday and my LEDs have arrived. When I got them home and opened the box, I was shocked. These things are freakin tiny. The star is about the size of a nickel, while the LED itself is like the size of a match head. I've heard people talk about how small these things are, but actually seeing them is a different story. Hopefully I can get some pictures up with some good comparisons so everyone can get an idea of there size.

[1oooop]

yup, thay are tiny, that's why I would get 10 watt instead of these puny guys
I'd probably have to get a complex lends system for the 10 watt tho... LOL the 10 watt's freaking the size of a dime!!

[traelman]

Welcome Back, you didn't tell us you were leaving... I kinda missed you... BTW, why cool white? I prefer purple with a few whites(enhances color and I think it's good for plants)


The "cool white" refers to the color temperature (http://www.schorsch.com/kbase/glossary/cct.html). The ratings from the spec sheet are 4500k(min), 6500k (typical), 10000 k (max). Most retail type lights for aquariums PC, flourescents, are in this range also. From what I've been able to read, the higher the number (4500k-7000k) the more vivid the detail will be.

[traelman]

Well it is finally time to get out some tools.
I now have all of the components for the light portion of my project:
1. 6 star LEDs (http://www.luxeonstar.com/endor-rebel-cool-white-emitter-145-lumens-700ma-p-178.php)
2. 1 BuckPuck 1000mA DC LED Driver (http://www.luxeonstar.com/buckpuck-1000ma-dc-led-driver-with-leads-p-12.php)
3. 1 Heatsink
4. 1 ATX computer power supply
5. 1 Cooling fan
My first order of business will be to modify an old computer power supply, so that I can use it for different voltages to "drive" the fan and the LEDs.

Someone had mentioned that I should use an old computer power supply, after a little research I found this a useful and conveinent thing to do. These are some links to various sites with detailed instructions on how to do this.

I like this one the best.
How to Convert a Computer ATX Power Supply to a Lab Power Supply (http://www.wikihow.com/Convert-a-Computer-ATX-Power-Supply-to-a-Lab-Power-Supply)

There is tons of cool stuff here.
Instructables (http://www.instructables.com/tag/?q=atx+power+supply&limit%3Atype%3Aid=on&type%3Aid=on&type%3Auser=on&type%3Acomment=on&type%3Agroup=on&type%3AforumTopic=on&sort=none)

I'll try and post some pics soon.

[SuBXeRo]

computer PSU's are ok to use for testing IMO. They are good power for a reasonable price, they are just bulky which sux. I have modified PSU's before to work without a mobo to switch the power on and it works ok. I prefer buying just the plain converters at this point, usually alot smaller and what not and easier to work with IMO and experience.

The different voltages on the PSU is pointless in your application. those 5v rails are useless to be honest. All Case fans and whatnot are built to run on a 12 v power source and some are adjustable based on their design. Some are adjusted via the mobo settings or manually through a fan control program. Others are just plan controlled by a little box that comes with the fan.

Now i question, why did you get the buck puck? The price isnt too bad, you could have just used resistors instead. You dont really need to worry about power fluctuations and getting a really consistant clean power source. Its not car audio or a bad circuit system that you are on, things should be pretty consistant. Aside from that, the specs on it look a little shakey. From reading those specs my impresion is this. You need atleast 2v more then the total voltage in series. With an atx PSU, max is 12v so 10 would be the most you could wire in series. It ooks like you would have to wire 3 in series and then wire those 3 in parallel with the second series set.

If you are smart, test the puck with 2 in series and then 3 and see if there is any dimming between the 2. Because the current is fixed yeah, you need to play around with it a bit. Personally that thing confuses the crap out of me. But if you have a better understanding of it than I, go for it :). Just be careful, you really dont wanna burn the stars out due to their pricey nature.

[traelman]

The reason I'm using an old power supply, is it was just laying around, aka "cheap". It will also be very versatile, this is taken from one of the links I posted earlier,
"The voltages that can be output by this unit are 24v (+12, -12), 17v (+5, -12), 12v (+12, 0), 10v (+5, -5), 7v (+12, +5), 5v (+5, 0) which should be sufficient for most electrical testing. Many ATX power supplies with a 24-pin connector for motherboards will not supply the -5V lead. Look for ATX power supplies with a 20-pin connector, a 20+4-pin connector, or an AT power supply if you need -5V".


The main reason that I got the buck puck is for the constant current regulation that it will provide, a dedicated 1000mA, no resistors and no calculations. Just plug it in and go. In the final design, this is what I will use, because it will always be a steady current and was designed for these type LEDs.

Light-emitting diodes (LEDs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED)) work using a combination of voltage and current. The 3.15V listed in the spec is called the forward (turn on) voltage, once this is met the diode will allow current to flow freely.
This will cause the diode to emit light. Using different type circuits the LED can be driven with different amounts of current 10mA to 1000mA.

[traelman]

Bad News.............I lost my camera while on vacation recently, so I haven't been able to post pics of my new toys.:wall::wall::wall:


Good News...........My wife's parents rented the same condo unit that we did the next week after us. And guess what they found in the cushions of the couch???

My Camera!!!!!:headbang2::headbang2::headbang2:

So for now I've borrowed one. Here are some shots of my LEDs, the heat sink I'm using, and my partially modified power supply.

[Que]

Everything looks good except the smokes.

Q

[traelman]

I've gotten everything hooked up for my power supply!!!! It seems to be working correctly. I think thats really cool. I've only tested it with a multimeter. Now to power up one of the LEDs. I'm really interested in what they will look like.

I just hope there are no popping sounds or smoke.:shocked::shocked:

Wish me luck!!!

[traelman]

It's Blinding!!!!!!!!!!!!! And thats with just two LEDs powered.


Pics to come soon.

Sweeeeeeeeet...................

[fishdude92]

why dont u just use some of them new led light bulbs, last forever and uses like 5 watts http://www.dealextreme.com/productimages/sku_1476_1.jpg

[1oooop]

why dont u just use some of them new led light bulbs, last forever and uses like 5 watts http://www.dealextreme.com/productimages/sku_1476_1.jpg

wow, now I'm starting to feel sad... BTW... most of those have a crappy light spectrum... you can barely do anything... plants grow slow as hell

[1oooop]

It's Blinding!!!!!!!!!!!!! And thats with just two LEDs powered.


Pics to come soon.

Sweeeeeeeeet...................

good for you, high five :headbang2::headbang2::headbang2::headbang2: also, please make sure you hooked it up on the right line... (usually orange)

[1oooop]

I've gotten everything hooked up for my power supply!!!! It seems to be working correctly. I think thats really cool. I've only tested it with a multimeter. Now to power up one of the LEDs. I'm really interested in what they will look like.

I just hope there are no popping sounds or smoke.:shocked::shocked:

Wish me luck!!!

I hope you hooked everything up correctly...

[1oooop]

BTW, I did some research(wow, I never do that) and found out that purple LEDs are good for the job of plant lighting... so are green LEDs(I think)

[traelman]

This guy, Wayne Schmidt (http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/fluorescent.html), has done a good bit of research on plant lghting, and has presented it very well.

It tends to agree with what I've found, which is plants like bulbs that are strong in the blue and red portion of the color spectrum. Looking at the data sheet for the Rebel LEDs (http://luxeon.com/pdfs/DS56.pdf)that I'm using they perform well in both of those spectrums.

Now that I have the LEDs working I can start on the enclosure to house everything. So its off to LOWES.:headbang2::headbang2::headbang2:

[traelman]

As promised here are some pictures. I have three lights hooked up, running at 3.4V/1000mA. Thats about the max they will handle. they look pretty good. I'll get some pics in low light tonight. These were taken in front of a sunny window and they are still really bright.

[traelman]

Heat management is definitely crucial with these things. After about an hour, 3 of them running at 1000mA, brought the temp of the heat sink up to 100F. I plan on adding a fan to this setup so that will help.

[1oooop]

Heat management is definitely crucial with these things. After about an hour, 3 of them running at 1000mA, brought the temp of the heat sink up to 100F. I plan on adding a fan to this setup so that will help.

:) and now 1oooop comes along to enlighten everybody...
there are actually these electrical devices that move heat :) and you can actually make an air conditioner out of them, only problem is the wattage they use up...
here's a pic
http://www.hothardware.com/articleimages/item928/big_Cooling_TEC.jpg
and how it really looks like
http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/images/peltier7.jpg
meh... peltier modules...

[traelman]

My wife said she has burned retinas.:lol2::lol2:

58220

58221


Anyway these things are pretty cool.
As far as the heat issue, I turned the fan for the power supply towards the heatsink and it seems to be doing a good job of keeping things a little cooler, by at least 10 degrees.
These pics are of all six LEDs, wired in parellel, being driven at 500 mA. This is in the middle of there operating range, so it should actually extend their life usage.
The last photos are of my existing light and the new LED array.
58224
58223
58222

I'm really glad that things are "looking brighter"!!!!:headbang2::headbang2:

[CaitxSith]

That's so bright, I'm pretty sure you're going to blind your fish permanently.

:laugh:

[traelman]

Ater about an hour with the fan blowing on the heat sink, the temp is now down to 77F. So it seems that the heat wont be a big problem to overcome.

[1oooop]

good for you...

[wackydan]

peltier cooling methods are pretty inefficient for cooling anything that puts out too much heat.... They also produce condensation. -Not a big deal for a fish tank, but a big deal if near electronics... like LEDs.

[Cory Keeper]

not to mention, a decent setup runs an arm and a leg as well. Condensation and electronics are not near as dangerous as you may think. Could you kill chips with condensation? yes, is it easy to do? not really.

Very interesting reading there on that link. Would explain why we need to balance the light spectrum with Daylights, Too blue and the plants cant get a good root system. Too red and plants won't be able to grow leaves.

In the future I may build a LED array comprised of both blue and red LEDs, mixed with white. Tweaking may be needed.

[traelman]

I tried to get some comparison photos with both my lights over the tank tonite,
but my camera just wouldn't cooperate.:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

It was quite a difference from what I could see.:thm::thm:

Maybe I'll set up some sort of tripod, hopefully that will help.

What I really need is a new camera!!!:lol2::lol2::lol2:

Later PeePs

[1oooop]

huh, try raising the ISO..

[Aydee]

You may also note that the temperature will decrease when you have the heatsink turned over so the fins are vertical (upwards). When it's lying facedown like you have in the photos, the air flow is vastly restricted.

Running hi-intensity LEDs without current limiting could cause troubles in the future. You may wish to seriously consider a current controlling circuit as opposed to relying on series/parallel of a 12V feed. You will significantly reduce the lifespan if they decide to enter thermal runaway.

The advantage of spending the $20 or so for a buck-puck (or similar) is you can do PWM control. This will allow you to do full dimming and give far more control of your light. If you are so inclined, you can control the buckpucks from an AVR/PIC (200Hz PWM signal) to control the intensity. From there you could do sunrise/sunset control.

I'll be doing a CREE setup for my hex tank soonish.

ALSO!!! Make sure you learn how CREE, Lumileds etc do their binning. eg. If you buy LEDs from bin (i think) Q3, you get 10,000k LEDs. No tweaking or fiddling. Tested at that value. It may cost about 50c more, but you get the right light spectrum.

Cheers.

AD

[traelman]

You bring up some good points Aydee:thm:

Right now I still have everything in "test" configuruation. I'll eventually have everything mounted for optimum heat displscement.

I guess I forget to mention in my earlier post that these are running on a 1000mA buck puck. Now that I have used it, I think that the $$$ was well spent. You can hook up 3, 5, 2, 6 LEDs and you dont have to worry about current. Mine has 2 paralell legs with 3 LEDs in series. It gives me 500mA across each LED. Hopefully this we be a good compromise between output and lifespan.

As for the bin issue, I got the best that was available from Luxeon. These were premounted an a star. Why, convienence, but from what I've read the bin on these should good.

I have finally been able to borrow enough tools to finish the extierior of my light, so get ready for new pics in the coming days.


Yea for CWS........:headbang2::headbang2::headbang2:

[Ghostkid]

I really like what your doing. I would really like to know the cost of this project. From what I've seen for a LED hoods, this might be the way to go.

[traelman]

So far the cost of this is still close to my budget of 75$.

The LEDs and buck puck were 55$ with shiping. The wood that I'm using was 24$. I'm sure there will be some more misc. things but so far it hasn't been hugely overbudget.

[traelman]

Time for some pics.............

I didn't think that cutting a HEX would be so stressful. It took me quite a while, but I think it will work out OK.

[DarkDH]

Keep at it!

And here I am, who just spend lots of $$$ a new light system.

[traelman]

With some minor trimming I think I have everything cut to correct sizes. Now all I have to do is put it together. I will try and post some more pics tonight.

[1oooop]

sweet... sorry for extended vacation...

[Cory Keeper]

Sweet, I myself am going to try building a 7 million MCD LED array. I'm not sure if its overkill or not, but it would look awesome.

[The Zigman]

Looks like alot of work....And to think I just bought 3 of these
http://images.lightinguniverse.com/img/i/11/ls-1208blk.jpg
and a power supply from menards for $29, and mounted them in my canopy...

Keep it up and let us see the finished project!

[1oooop]

LMAO... 7 million SMD LED array ur hilarious

[Aydee]

LMAO... 7 million SMD LED array ur hilarious

He said 7million MCD (Milli Candela). Not 7million LED.

Different.

7,000,000 / 10000 (Assuming 10k millicandella) = 700 LEDs

You can get brighter and need less LEDs.

AD

[Cory Keeper]

actually, was going to use 18,000 MCD LEDs, not sure how I can find much brighter than that. I've heard of 50,000 MCD LEDs, but those are probably the high power LEDs, and if they aren't, probably overrated. I'm trying to avoid high power stuff, more heat and everything.

[GregAW]

Everything looks good except the smokes.

Q

Hey they are Lights so there's not much harming you. I smoke the Red 100's :)

[traelman]

Thanks GregAW, I'm trying to quit anyway.

[GregAW]

I've been trying to quit for some 40+ years now and it's really easy, just go to bed and you quit for the time you are asleep.

OK, back to your lighting. I've got a standard 55 gal and one of those flouresent lights, I'd like to replace it with something like you are building, how about a finished parts list and supplier when you get done. I'll be building a hood as well. Thanks for the great log of your progress.

[traelman]

I've been pretty busy recently so not much has been done. Today I have all day to work on my light/hood. As I type the last of the glue is drying on the hood portion. It looks a little rough right now (I am Not a woodcrafter!), but with some touchup and some detail work I think it will be OK. I'll post pics shortly.

[GregAW]

I've been really busy these days as well, my wife found Craigslist and I've put more miles on the SUV going after stuff for her. I got the 55 out of the deal. Now I have to rearrange a room so I can set it up. The money she saves, I burn up in gas. :rofl:

I've got so many projects going, one more won't matter. SO the LED hood will be much nicer than the old way of lighting and a lot cooler looking. Not to mention the savings on the electric bill.

[traelman]

I think I'm really going to Like the end results. Any way here are some new pics.

[GregAW]

Hood looks great! Want to build one for my 55? :)

[traelman]

I still have to add some interior supports so that it sits at the right height. Then some staining and paint.

This is a pics as the tank is now. I'm still battling a cloudy water issue, but it is getting better.

[traelman]

I don't know, it's taken forever to get this far. My wife wouldn't like it if a started another project. Unless you want to spend 500$. Then we could talk.

I will post an overview of what I've learned and some dos and don'ts. Hopefully they will be helpful. I think this will be how I do the light for my next tank.

[GregAW]

So, what do you have right on top of the tank to keep the water in and the salt creep away?

[traelman]

What I have now is a generic hood, with one 14W bulb.

[GregAW]

I thought you had a marine aquarium?

[1oooop]

EWW... trael... you don't know how to setup an aquarium do you? look at all that ammonia... I haven't seen a tank that bad for a little while (2 hrs) ur suppose to cycle it... anyway... water problem should be gone after many fish die and ammonia goes down

[GregAW]

I wonder if this type of lighting would work for a marine aquarium? I think Moon Lights are made using LEDs.

[GregAW]

EWW... trael... you don't know how to setup an aquarium do you? look at all that ammonia... I haven't seen a tank that bad for a little while (2 hrs) ur suppose to cycle it... anyway... water problem should be gone after many fish die and ammonia goes down

Don't you have anything positive to say? Sheesh. Seems like the only thing you do is criticize. Give the guy a break, he's at least doing something and sharing what he's doing. How do you know it's an ammonia problem? Have you tested the water? Maybe something got stirred up. Ever think of that?

[1oooop]

true, I would help him but... I'm a little busy... sorry I was a meanie head

[traelman]

Time for more pics, I've applied one coat of stain. I think it looks really good!!!
I'll give it a couple of hours to dry and then decide if I'll add another coat.

[GregAW]

Looks good to me. Get some waterproof clear and coat it or you might even get some clear epoxy and use that. You still se the wood grain and yet it should be waterproof. BTW, isn't it kind of early for rum and coke? :D

[traelman]

LOL, Jack and Coke for me......Thats my wifes morning soda.

I'm not sure of the protective finish that I'll use,maybe a varnish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish).




Btw: It is Labor Day......I'm off to the LBS(Local Beer Store)

[GregAW]

Pick me up a 6 pack of MGD while you're there. I'm still thinking about doing the LEDs for my Salt tank. It's just the standard 55 with a 4' tube. Varnish might give off some bad fumes. But then there are water based products out there too.

Looks great!

[1oooop]

I still have to add some interior supports so that it sits at the right height. Then some staining and paint.

This is a pics as the tank is now. I'm still battling a cloudy water issue, but it is getting better.
one quick question, do you have a filter? just wondering because tank looks like theres no filter

[GregAW]

OK, it's time for an update. How're the lights working?

[traelman]

The lites work great, they've been sitting there staring at me for days though. With my setup all I have to do is plug it in. I just need to get the "hood" done. Today I'm going to do some painting and final finishing.

[GregAW]

Photos man!! :) What lights would you use for a moon light configuration?

[traelman]

OK it is now time for some new pics. I plan on painting the interior white gloss. I'm going to over protective since the exterior has already been stained.

[GregAW]

What kind of fans are you going to install?

[traelman]

Right now I'm thinkig a very small fan from an old CPU. Since I have the DIY power supply and an old computer, I'll just use the small cpu fan.

[GregAW]

Did you get the cloudy water problem solved? I guess I need to figure out how many LEDs I need to buy and the driver(s).

[traelman]

Finally after many water changes, and removing a piece of driftwood, which I think was the culprit. It has cleared up nicely. Here is a crappy pic. I suck with a camera.

[GregAW]

Do you have the light on in the tank in this photo? Take a shot with the new lights on and one with them off. Glad you're getting the cloud out of there.

[traelman]

Here are some more pics, the inside has been painted.
Today I'm going to attach some hardware on the inside.

[GregAW]

Get R Done! I love these projects and it's even better when completely documented and photos included. Great job!

[traelman]

GregAW, you'd asked me earlier about using LEDs for saltwater. I did a couple of searches, and there are people that use them. For a 55g it would probably take quite a few, like 15 or 20. I've also seen the manufactured Light (http://www.showeryourpets.com/soledaqilsyb.html) using LEDs. It's just more fun to DIY tho. It'll just take some research and planning.

[GregAW]

And look at the price they want! :( I've got a friend who's an electronic engineer, I may ask him about this project. It would be more fun to do a DIY thing and it work better than the commercial ones.

[traelman]

No updates recently, Ive just been really busy. Hopefully I can get everything finished up this weekend.

I'm going to try my hand at DIY CO2, for all the plants that I want to have, this weekend also. I've got most of the materials gathered, I just need to put them together

I've seen a few other people who also turning to DIY LEDs recently. I think that this is going to become alot more popular in the near future.

[GregAW]

I like the idea of LEDs for lighting. Lower energy bills, less heat to worry about, and cheaper in price.

[traelman]

And if they are used correctly, no bulb replacement for 50,000 hours.

(10hr*365days=3650hrs a yr,
50,000/3650hrs per year =13.69863013698630136986301369863 yrs)

No bulbs for 13.5 years, now that is crazy, and even though LEDs do "die out", it's no where near as fast as other type bulbs.

WIN, WIN

:headbang2::headbang2::headbang2:


I need to get a job with Philips(maker of the REBEL LEDs (http://www.lumileds.com/products/line.cfm?lineId=19))

[GregAW]

Now if I can only get the brightness and color I need for a marine aquarium.

[Cory Keeper]

Actually you can already, its just gonna cost alot more.

The Luxeon Rebels would be great for this, you would just need a mixture of both cool white and blues to get your desired effect. Reefers should be able to help in this situation.

[1oooop]

I have to agree... be sure to add a little purple... makes fishies look cool

[aglarond]

Pardon the stupid question but what would be the 'wattage' of the setup you have constructed? I know it isn't measured that way but is a loose conversion possible?

Great thread, it's inspired me to learn a little more about lighting in general.

[GregAW]

I have to agree... be sure to add a little purple... makes fishies look cool

But it benefits nothing. You get the purple with the growth lights of red and blue. I guess that would give you the purple.

[1oooop]

Pardon the stupid question but what would be the 'wattage' of the setup you have constructed? I know it isn't measured that way but is a loose conversion possible?

Great thread, it's inspired me to learn a little more about lighting in general.
o boy o boy, doesn't anyone know ohm's law...
thats easy... 6 watts... right traheal?

[traelman]

o boy o boy, doesn't anyone know ohm's law...
thats easy... 6 watts... right traheal?

No Its not 6 W 1000p, and not everyone deals with electronics or electricity.

aglarond, Ohms Law is one of the fundamentals of electricity. One way to look at it is I(current) x V(voltage)= W(power). Using this I determined the wattage that each LED uses, .5A(my setup) x3.4V(from spec sheet)= 1.7W per LED. Since I'm using six, 6 x 1.7= 10.2W of power. I think the quality of the light will equate to about 25 to 30 watts of flourescent lighting, that just a quess tho. Just ask if you have any other questions.

[GregAW]

Traelman, Thanks for that explanation. Now, how does your LED lighting stack up to the lumens when compared to the fluorescent lighting, or maybe even the MH lighting?

[traelman]

Traelman, Thanks for that explanation. Now, how does your LED lighting stack up to the lumens when compared to the fluorescent lighting, or maybe even the MH lighting?



I'm not really sure of the Lumen rating of my particular bulb, but I have been doing some research to find out. This is one site (http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/5942623) that I ran across.

My setup will yield around 105-110 lumens per LED. That would give me a total of 630-660 lumens. This is one site (http://www.swivel.com/graphs/show/5942623) that I ran across.

I think alot of the high end bulbs will give you the lumen rating. But in my opinion, you have to balance the lumen rating with the color spectrm output of the bulb also.

[GregAW]

So how would that compute to say something like 10,000K at 55 watt? I'm not in to electronics to the degree you are.

[traelman]

Here is a page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy)that will put you into sensory overload.

Man I do love this site. It is wikipidiea, this site has info on just about everything you could have a question about. I'm sure if we spent about two weeks reading on this site about light we could all be experts.

[traelman]

As far as my project goes, hopefully I can get some work done on it today.

In between "honey dos" and college football.:coffee2::coffee2:

[GregAW]

Here is a page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy)that will put you into sensory overload.

Man I do love this site. It is wikipidiea, this site has info on just about everything you could have a question about. I'm sure if we spent about two weeks reading on this site about light we could all be experts.

Heck, my mind is already on overload! I swore I would never take on the task of building another electronic device after attempting to build some controllers for my CNC milling machine. :grinyes:

[GregAW]

As far as my project goes, hopefully I can get some work done on it today.

In between "honey dos" and college football.:coffee2::coffee2:

Never mind the football, how do you find time away from the HONEY-DO list? I have a very hard time doing that. ;)

[cam191919]

good luck with it, i started to read this thread expecting to see the finished project :D

[GregAW]

good luck with it, i started to read this thread expecting to see the finished project :D

It's in the works! :D

[Cory Keeper]

Actually, a number of things.

First, a pinkish type light is better for plants than something in the 6500K range, Thats because plants use both blue and red, and when you mix the colors, you get pink.

Second, Lumens means nothing. My 3w Mag Lite probably has at max 160 lm, a single 23w CFL bulb puts out 10 times that, but put 10 of those lights and you probably have at least 3-5 times the amount of light. Also the quality of LED light is much better than that of PC and T5s, thus watt for watt, LED is going to tar any flourescent setup.

and Cam, don't forget my thread, I'm working on it as well, right now I'm working on a new canopy, then I plan to install them within a few short weeks (I hope). I'm getting ready to order the resistors and secondary 12v source and fans and other goodies today as well as finish a more professional looking diagram.


http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165345

[traelman]

I have finallly put my new light on the tank ......................

It looks quite different from the light that I had earlier.

Pics to come soon.............

[GregAW]

Well... POST A PICTURE ALREADY!!!! :)

[traelman]

My new Liite

[GregAW]

Looks GRATE in the first photo. How about installing your old light for a comparison. I want 3 or 4 of those!!

[traelman]

Well I've finally been able to get everything mounted and secured. The photos that I posted earlier were of a test fit. I'll try and get some comparison pics posted later today!!!

[GregAW]

All in all, do you like the lighting better than the flour. you had before? I'm getting ready to build a hood for my 90g bow front and thought I would put 4 of your modules in it and the lights that were in the old hood. Next will be to find the right LEDs for moon lighting. Great project there!! Looking for the photos!! ;)

[traelman]

Yes Greg, I do like it more. The color difference in the two is drastic. If I had to describe the two, I would say that the LEDs remind me of the light in the desert on a cloudless day. While the old flourescent makes me think of light you would see in the morning on a cloudy day. My camera really sucks so I dont know if you'll be able to see the difference. I just ordered a new one yesterday, hopefully it will work alot better.

To address another question that you posed to me Greg, these LEDS are the exact same ones used in the pricey Solaris systems (http://www.solarisled.com/). These come with a various number of panels, and each panel has 30 of the same LEDs that I'm using.

[GregAW]

Now that info on these LEDs is great! I could save something like $2,200.00 over the Solaris. I would like to run 25 of these LEDs from one driver but I don't know if that can happen. Then I would like 2 of the 25 LED modules, one for each half of the tank. Your project sure has inspired me and since I'm goign to build a custom hood for my 90, this would be a great lighting system. Now if I could get the Solaris controller.

[Cory Keeper]

You would still need a power supply if your using Buck Pucks. And frankly speaking, a waste if you ask me.

Sure its good in theory but unless you have a 32+ volt power supply you would still need three pucks. Besides if the tried and true resistor is good enough for a flashlight, than why is not good enough in any application?

I just think its a waste, but then I'm cheap and I know what I'm doing. And if your worried about spikes, a simple 1A fuse should suffice for protection. The LEDs could handle the current spike longer than the fuse could.

Something tells me I should make an update on my project.

[GregAW]

Power supplies are easy to come by. When we're talking $300.00 as opposed to $2,700.00, there is no waste. As a matter of fact you can have a lot more for a lot less.

I've got a 42vdc, 12 amp power supply made by Power One just sitting here waiting to be put to good use. The Power One suplly is already protected and I got it for $25.00.

I'm going to go for it and see how well I can make it work.

Why is there always someone wanting to add a fly to the ointment? Sheesh, it works and the photos prove it. I just want one bigger since I have a much bigger tank to light up.

BTW, you aren't the only one who knows what they are doing, and what I don't know or can't figure out, I've got an Intel engineer friend that I'm sure can figure it out.

[traelman]

That sounds like a really good power supply Greg. It would be perfect for something like this. As long as you do your research, you can make anthing happen that you want.

[GregAW]

Actually I've got 3 of them and 2 of them are running the controllers for CNC Mills. The third one is just waiting for a super project to come along and I think it juat did.

[Que]

Has anyone checked out a Solaris unit? Can you save a bundle by building an LED light fixture for your aquarium? Sure. Will it compare to a Solaris hood? Not unless you check out a Solaris hood and try to come up with control and monitor circuitry similar to what they produce. Their hoods are made to replace metal halide fixtures at half the power and they are designed primarily for salt water.

Here is a spec. sheet on the Solaris in case anyone is interested.

Q

http://www.solarisled.com/Portals/0/Solaris%20I5%20Datasheet.pdf

[GregAW]

Been there and done that. I still think the off set in cost to build as to buy can be justified and if you know a PIC programmer, I'll bet the same controls can be achieved.

[Sploke]

Everyone keeps saying how it would be so easy for someone to build a solaris-like LED panel for soooo much cheaper. Yes they are expensive, but lets look at a materials cost from a retail point of view (based on a 4' system)

120 Rebel LEDS @ avg ~8 each - $960
120 Fraen Lenses @ $3 each - $360
computer controller - $300 maybe?
power supply (x2) - $75
PCBs, wire, solder, other various sundrys - $100
Housing - $50-100 depending on what you make it out of
four PC fans - $20

For a grand total of ~$1900. Keep in mind, that is strictly the material cost. Not to mention the time it would take to hand-solder 120 LEDs and write the code for the controller. You could do something similar with a bunch of timers and maybe some variable resistors, but then you're getting away from what you get with the Solaris fixture.

Not to mention, when you buy a premade fixture, you have the material costs, plus the cost of paying someone to build it, and overhead burden rates, i.e. cost of doing business.

Is the Solaris very expensive? Yes. Is it overpriced relative to the value of the components and the utility it provides? I don't think so, at this point in time. Will it come down in price in the next few years? Absolutely, due to both advances in manufacturing as well as competition in the marketplace.

I guess my point is that, sure, you can put together a pretty decent LED system for a few hundred bucks, but just because you can, you can't say that a vastly superior product is overpriced. Its kind of like saying a Ferrari is overpriced because it costs way more than a Honda Civic.

Anyway, rant over...traelman didn't meat to derail your thread there - the system looks great, from both a systems standpoint as well as fit and finish.

[Que]

I too like the job you did traelman. Very nice indeed. A job to be proud of.

Q

[GregAW]

It's still about 1/2 what Solaris wants. Even less when you consider bulk buying of the LEDs. I don't know where you got the $8.00 each price. I saw them for $6.99 each, and if you buy 100 - 249 the prices falls to $5.59 each. No lenses are needed with the Endor Rebel LED. Hard to tell about the controller but I'm sure a computer controlled controller can be had for a lot less than you state. A CNC controller can be had for as little as $50.00 and the computer tells it what to do and when. Power supply, why would you need 2? The Power One has two taps feeding 12 - 42 vdc, adjustable. More than enough power - $25.00 off eBay.

I really think you are trying to inflate the price to justify buying the Solairs. Hmm, maybe you work for them or have a vested interest. LOL Now, where is it made?

[Sploke]

I have no vested interest in PFO or the Solaris product. For a long time, after I saw the solaris, I also figured I could build reef-quality lighting myself for far cheaper. I starting looking into buying the stuff and figuring out how much time it would take me to actually do it (not to mention I don't have the programming skills to do the computer part anyway) so I quickly decided it wasn't worth it to me. As far as justifying the price, I've seen them up close in person, so depending on whether the shortcomings of the I-4 series will be all addressed in the new I-5 series, I already know its worth it, especially when considering total cost of ownership with a MH/T5HO combination system.

[Cory Keeper]

The main issues matt, is that as you stated, thats not for plants, its for reefers where everything is already expensive. Also most planted tanks don't want or need a dimming function. While nice, I don't think it quite justifies the price. But then, thats my own stupid opinion. But they sort of do have a right to charge whatever they see fit, and seeing as how its the ONLY LED fixture out there ATM, they do have a monoply. But if they are so good with LEDs? why not build one for planted tanks? I'm sure quite a few would like to have some.

And I also disagree that it's vastly superior to a homade fixture. Home made fixtures have their place and are designed for a specific purpose wheras

BTW Greg, I wasn't meaning to say you didn't know what you were doing, its just I see no reason to spend an extra $60 when a 50c resistor would suffice?

Ehhh, like I said, I'm cheap.

[GregAW]

Well, if you were to add in a few red and blue LEDs you have just added in the spectrum of light needed for plant growth. But, if you look back at the beginning of this thread, you'll see a few photos of plant growth.

Where was the extra $60? Resistors aren't that high. I can get 1000 of them from jameco.com for a bout a penny each. THAT'S CHEAP!

[Cory Keeper]

I'm talking about those pucks. And from what I've read, just the white ones will do. Back 4 years ago when the 1w LEDs were bright (LOL) 7 of those suckers beat a 7w PC bulb on a small tank to shreds. If anything a few blues would be great for plant growth (though, not toward the actinic side). remember, the best light for plants is more purple than anything.

[1oooop]

good times huh...

[Tedzbug]

this thread is great.... i am trying to set up my own LED setup for my 70 gallon, But now i'm thinkin about it more, i never realized what was available (solaris) i work for a custom computer and electronic manufacturer....... wonder what kind of led and controller prices i can get through work.

[Sploke]

another one to look into for comparison is the LED fixture by AquaIllumination. I don't know as much about that, other than a lot of people were recommending it over the Solaris when the I-4 series was having all of its problems.

[GregAW]

Hey Matt, Do you have a link for the light you are talking about?

[Sploke]

http://www.aquaillumination.com/index.html

[GregAW]

Thanks Matt. It looks like they are priced just about the same. I do think that over the winter I'll play with building something.

[Sploke]

Yeah, which should say something. If PFO was really significantly jacking up the margin on their lights, I would have expected AI to be able to undercut them by quite a bit.

[GregAW]

The lighting part isn't all that big of a deal but the controller is another story. I think I'll play with the lighting part and then challenge my buddy to build and program the controller. :D

[Cory Keeper]

The problem is I still have yet to see a LED system for FW plants. Though the AI does have a 6-20K temp range, its still paying for LEDs you wouldn't need. Though the controller from AI looks far more advanced than that of PFO.

[1oooop]

well, most LEDs DO work for planted tanks, there was this one guy who conducted a few tests, one with a PC tank, another with an LED tank... I wonder why he doesn't have a control with no light(LOL)

a link is posted somewhere by trahel...

the test results proved LEDs ARE better than PC when growing plants

[Cory Keeper]

I think you misunderstood. I have yet to see a commercial LED light system for a FW planted tank.

I did see that test result, and being 4 years old, I expect the Rebels to exceed expectations.

[1oooop]

lol, silly me... tho commercial made ones probably are good for planted too... you just need to check the K rating usually

[GregAW]

I found the following review on another forum from a guy who bought one of the HIGH dollar LED fixtures.

SOLARIS I-SERIES FINAL REVIEW Final Review
OK, thought I would write my final review on Solaris as a user after 3 months + with actual corals and fishes in tank.

Polyps appear within minutes they are in my new tank….all SPS are showing good PE and seem to be doing fine under the new lights. Light setting, I slowly increase the whites from 30% to 80% every 10 to 14 days to let the corals acclimate to the new lightings level as in my previous tank they were under 3 x MH250W - don’t want to burn them…. http://www.zeovit.com/forums/images/smilies/naughty.gif

Night mode and cloudy sky mode are my favourite but so far can’t see any benefits for my fishes nor corals. I think it’s only a concept more than anything else but cool otherwise.

So far, no squeaky fans and light fixture is very silence. You will have to put your ears next to the fixture to hear anything.

Problems Encounter
2 LED stopped working once I increase the intensity above 60%. With the 2 Led not working, this has also caused some of the LED to start blinking, due to uneven power distribution, I was told.

Replacement of the Led strip was easy as it’s a matter of removing 4 screw and replace the blown LED strip with the new strip. PFO send me the replacement strip within 2 weeks

Then another issue is day white (DW) LED refusing to shut off during the night mode!! PFO suspect this is cause by a faulty Transistor board, which accordingly to them they only encounter twice. They have sent me 3 version of Transistor board to exchange but still do not solve the issue.

Comes close to the 3 month usage timeline, one of the 3 power supply also died on me, follow by another power supply two days later … http://www.zeovit.com/forums/images/smilies/wallbash.gif This leave only 2 section of LED lighted up, out of total 6 section. I open up the Power supply and apparently the condenser has blown so that was obviously a major concern for me as this can cause fire hazard!!

Summary
Overall I still think Led lights are great as it gives you the flexibility to adjust both colors and brightness with a press of a button. No more worries about what type MH bulb or T5 tubes color combo to buy and experience and experience and experience until you get something you like http://www.zeovit.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif Not to mention the easy maintenance and the replacements of LED http://www.zeovit.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif

Defiantly for those who cannot make up their mind on the colors of their lights….me being one of those people !! In the past I have tried so many different combo actins and MH bulbs and still can never get the light color combo I like and with a LED lighting fixture, this is so easy.

Heat is almost non-existent. During the time I was using Solaris, my temperature was consistent at 27.5 degree and now that I have taken down my Solaris and used my old 250w MH with 2 x 54w T5, my temperature went up to 28.2 degree…

Also for those considering using LED, to note that the light shine down like a spot so you don’t have too much lights over throw at your glass panel, which in return causes less algae growths and makes your life of cleaning the glass panel a breeze, especially when you have a Peninsular set-up, like mine. http://www.zeovit.com/forums/images/smilies/clap2.gif

Only wish is the build quality and QC could be better. http://www.zeovit.com/forums/images/smilies/doh1.gif Understand the frustrations some went through to get replacement parts via PFO but I was lucky as their distributor in Singapore just give 1st class service throughout this whole ordeal http://www.zeovit.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

[GregAW]

The problem is... Though the controller from AI looks far more advanced than that of PFO.

I thought the same thing. The funny part is, these things are being made in China or another Asian country and probably only cost $100.00 to build. They bring them here and have a 2700% mark-up. :evil_lol:

[GregAW]

Here's another thread for thought.
http://www.marineaquariumsa.com/showthread.php?t=6589

[GregAW]

Then there's this one.
http://www.royalaquarium.com/Lumen/Products.htm

[Sploke]

Greg do you know if that review was for the I-4 or I-5 series?

[GregAW]

Matt, If the dates are correct it should be the 5. This was a recent post. I still think for just replacement of MH and PC lighting building your own is a better way to go. You can build it to suit your needs and not be so genaric. A good winter project. :)

Greg

[GregAW]

Well, I gave up on building my own LED lights for my hood. There are new LED lights about the size of fluorescent tubes, a little smaller in diameter but fit a standard 48" fixture. In my Odyssea B-80 hood, I was able to get 5 light tubes and do have room for one more. They aren't cheap but will last for 100,000 hours and run just warm to the touch. I had the retro kit installed and got 2 16K tubes, 1 22K, and 1 12K, all bright white. The 5th light tube is blue light rated at 470NM. All in all, I am impressed and with all the lights burning, I'm only running 97 watts. Sure beats the pc's I had and the 250 watt MH's I was going to add.

[1oooop]

o yea, those... my GOD they're EXPENSIVE.... it's worth it to spend hours building your own instead of those...

[Sploke]

Well, I gave up on building my own LED lights for my hood. There are new LED lights about the size of fluorescent tubes, a little smaller in diameter but fit a standard 48" fixture. In my Odyssea B-80 hood, I was able to get 5 light tubes and do have room for one more. They aren't cheap but will last for 100,000 hours and run just warm to the touch. I had the retro kit installed and got 2 16K tubes, 1 22K, and 1 12K, all bright white. The 5th light tube is blue light rated at 470NM. All in all, I am impressed and with all the lights burning, I'm only running 97 watts. Sure beats the pc's I had and the 250 watt MH's I was going to add.

Got a link?

[GregAW]

I don't know, my time is worth a lot. Let's see, LEDs, 6 X $7.00 = $42.00, Puck = $15.00, power supply = $15.00, misc. parts (switches, wires, heatsink) $15.00, Total in parts = $88.00 plus S & H and taxes, you're close to $100.00. One 48" LED tube = $130.00. Warranty on the home made light = 0. Warranty on my light tubes = 2 years. No ballast, puck, or added power supply required, plug-n-play.

[Sploke]

Yah Greg, agreed...When I was in college and had a lot of free time to play with all kinds of projects sure. But with a full time job, a self-employed wife running a fledgling business and a 14-month old, I have precious little time available to spend with my family, and its hard to justify blowing that off to work on projects that don't really benefit anything.

[GregAW]

Got a link?

A link to what?

[Sploke]

The LED tubes you are using.

[GregAW]

Some more photos.

1st one is of just the blue light on. 2nd is of just the white and the 3rd is with everything on.

[GregAW]

The LED tubes you are using.

I got them locally from Exotic Aquarium (http://www.exotic-aquarium.com). About the 4th link down.

[Cory Keeper]

Greg, FYI, pucks are not required. Yeah its something nice in theory, but useless once you actually look at. Resistors do the same job for a fraction of the cost. And if your worried about blowing out the LEDs, 1A glass fuses are dirt cheap. For the price of one puck (actually less) I was able to get a total of 8 fuse holders and 10 1A fuses (found at my local auto parts store).

BTW, those look to be 5mm LEDs, last I knew they only had a 5-10K hour useful life. Yeah, they will last to 100,000 hours, but by the time they reach that they will be so dim its not funny. the high power LEDs have a useful life of about 50-60K, and total of about 100,000. Then again, things might have changed but I doubt it. Look nice for a reef though.

[GregAW]

Well CK, you might want to check out the new versions of LEDs. They are much better than they use to be. For 2 years I don't have to worry about anything and I didn't have to figure the resistance for the LEDs and this plugs into 115 VAC. You've got a better eye than I do if you can figure the size from a photo that has been reduced by 5 times. :) Any way, on the watt meter, with all lights on I'm only using 97 watts. This is a 90 gallon bow front tank. It's 24" deep. If they last 50,000 hours that's roughly 13 years, by then I don't think I'll really care and that's better than 8 months on an $80.00 MH bulb.

[Cory Keeper]

I had not realized that MH were so expensive......

Heck, even if they do last about 25K hours, you still save money in the long run...... what with power costs with MH and the bulbs, plus the fixture. EEEESHHHH.

No wonder reefers are looking LEDs. Ohhhh boy.

As far as spotting the fact that they are 5mm, If they were high power LEDs just one tube and that many in there, your looking at an INSANE amount of light with just one, let alone 5 of those.

[Sploke]

thats what I've been saying. the total cost of ownership of a good sized MH fixture is way higher than even one of the solaris fixtures. Say you get a good prebuilt MH fixture with 2x250wMH and 2xT5HO actinics for...600 bucks new. MH bulbs are about 70 bucks apiece and T5HO bulbs are about 25 bucks. Say you stretch it and replace them all once a year...thats 190 bucks a year. Over the purported 10 year life of a solaris fixture - 1900 bucks. Now, I know a guy with a 4' solaris that he used to replace his 2x400w MH rig, to the tune of about 50 bucks a month savings. If you are replacing 2x250, lets be conservative and say its only a $20/month savings. Again, over the 10 year life of the solaris, thats $2400

So, solaris - $2700

MH - $600 + $1900 for bulbs + $2400 electricity increase = $4900

[GregAW]

SO, why even spend the $2700.00 for the Solaris? I got the 5 tube LED lights for $275.00, installed. I don't need the MH ot the T5HOs.

But for anyone out there interested, I have the 250 watt duel ballast and 2 250 watt MH fixtures for sale, only $150.00 plus shipping.

[Sploke]

I would have to see a lot more data before deciding those light bars are comparable to the Solaris. What kind of LEDs do they use, any idea? Are you using them over a reef tank? What kind of corals are you keeping?

[GregAW]

Dang the tank isn't even set up yet but the Aquarium shop from where I purchased them have them over their coral display tanks as well as their tanks where they have the frags for sale. Go to their web site and investigate and ask your own questions of the people who sell them. http://www.exotic-aquarium.com/index2.html Go down and click on the 4th button down.

Better yet, go spend the $2700.00 and have about the same thing I have only spend $2000.00 more.

[Cory Keeper]

I'm with matt. I'd like to see proof that these have a 10 year useful life (30% degradation is the industry standard) plus how much light it puts out into the tank. How well do they grow corals and such.

::grumble:: stupid ISP. Greg, Its not that we doubt you, but we doubt the product. I've never heard of LEDs having a useful life of 100,000 hours, even the high power versions. The lumen maintenance of my Luxeon Rebels have on average, 70% light output after 50K hours. Not shabby.

Though I do find this interesting. http://www.voltimum.co.uk/news/10757/infopro.whatsnew.latest/led-lighting-technology.html


A fundamental point to understand is that there are two types of LED used in light fittings: 5mm LEDs and high-output chip-on-board LEDs. While the 5mm types were used by some manufacturers in early commercial fittings, these are now being replaced by high-output (HO) LEDs, for the simple reason that the HO LEDs offer far superior lumen maintenance. After 6000 hours, the output of a 5mm LED drops to 50% of its original value, whereas the HO LEDs drop by only 5%. In other words, the HO LEDs will last for 10 years or more, but the cheaper 5mm LEDs will grow dim after just 2 years

Like I said, I doubt that those are really going to last you 13 years, 2, maybe, 10, no.

I am not defending nor promoting the solaris products, but matt has a point.

Oh, I did think 5mm were the way to go on my own LED project, but after looking at the facts, I chose HO LEDs over the 5mm. For the sole reason of lumen maintenance.

BTW, Mods, maybe it might be a good idea to split this into the marine equipment and DIY forum, this thread has been hijacked.

[GregAW]

If they only last 5 years it's a darn sight cheaper than MH that last maybe 8 months. The MH bulbs alone would cost you at least $600.00 over 5 years, not to mention the cost of electricity. that is using only ONE MH fixture. You can do the math. Using your 30% degradation, still gives me 7 years and the MH would need to be replace 10.2 times. Compare your cost for electricity for 250 watts as the LED cost at 97 watts.

[GregAW]

HI Jacked? We're still talking about LEDs and rather to build or buy ready made, or any way that's what I was talking about. I was comparing the cost of parts and time as opposed to just buying something already fabricated and installed in my existing equipment.

[Cory Keeper]

5 years, no. More like 2. You might make it up in energy savings, but at $650 every two years. no thank you.

And I beg to differ, yes it has been hijacked, this thread was started out as a build log. It has become more a discussion of DIY vs Solaris vs FL tube replacement, 5mm vs HO.

[GregAW]

Well it'll still be under warranty in 2 years so they can replace them for free. The company who makes the LEDs claim 100,000 hour life expectancy. These are not the LEDs of Radio Shack. Commercial grade used in LED bill board sign making.

You are bound and determined to prove your MH lights are better so we may as well drop this argument. I like what I got and that's all that matters to me.

[Cory Keeper]

And see greg, there inlies the problem. LIFE EXPECTANCY, not Lumen Maintenance. After about 2 years those will have only half the light that they are rated for.

If 5mm were so great, police cruisers would be using them. As it stands they use high power LEDs.

And I am by no means in favor of MH. In fact It is my opinion that LEDs beat anything out there. Its just that 5mm LEDs have their uses, lighting tanks aint one of them.

[GregAW]

Like I said before, these are not your normal LEDs. These are high powered LEDs. Oh well, this isn't getting anywhere. You are set in your ways of thinking and I'm using what I've got. You need to do some more research on LEDs. Times have change and so has the technology.

[Cory Keeper]

No they are not, judging from the pics you include, they are your normal 5mm. Show me where they are HO? 5mm are usually mounted to a star, and if they were HO, you would only need two, one 10K and one blue, because with that many in there, they would but out INSANE light. I've got a 29g planted and I scaled the number from 30 to 15 because thats how bright they are.

I am looking at the link you provided, and should you be right (though I doubt) I will admit that I am wrong.

But do not be mistaken that high brightness LEDs means HO LEDs.

[Sploke]

I wasn't so concerned about life expectancy, but rather light output. The only real way to compare this to the Solaris or the AI fixture would be to get light meter on it and draw some intensity charts.

And, CK has a point. If those LED bars lose 30% light over 3-5 years, they aren't going to be too useful for SPS corals. However, depending on the warranty, that may not qualify them for replacement because they would still be working, just at a fairly reduced capacity. In any case, without getting some hard PAR or lumen readings, its a pretty hard sell to say those are just as effective as a prebuilt high-output fixure.

[GregAW]

These are not 5mm LEDs they are a new T12mm. See, from the photos you can't possibly assume they are 5mm LEDs. They are built specifically for score boards, message boards, and warning lights. Features\Benefits - State-of-the-art Chip Technology - Low Power Consumption (2-4 Volts, 20mA) - Long Lasting (100K + Life Hours) - 5V or 12V Internal Resistor. So you see, these are not an EBay item.

[Sploke]

Alright after looking at the page, they do show some readings with the lux meter. Unfortunately they don't show anything really useful. They show lux numbers for the 48" light bars. They then show power and lux numbers for halides, then they compare power readings to a 6' solaris fixture but don't show any lux readings. Unfortunately the solaris page isn't loading right now so I can't pull up the lux numbers for that to compare it.

[Cory Keeper]

And I'd still need to see some figures on these 12mm LEDs before putting down that kind of money. The fact that I can't find anything on google still leaves me a little skeptical.

[GregAW]

Just buy your MH lights and forget I said anything about my LED tubes.

[Sploke]

don't get so frustrated....its just that you can't expect everyone to jump up and down over a new product because its way cheaper than everything else out there and "looks really bright". Empirical data and clinical results are really necessary to convince the general hobbyist that a new product is worth anything. I find it strange that the apparent manufacturer (www.sunbriteled.com) doesn't even mention the product on their page.

[Star_Rider]

Interesting read.

I am actually researching LED as a source as many reefers are doing now. when you consider MH at $80 per bulb let alone $300+ for a fixture and ballast(which are spendy and may need to be replaced too) for a single ;)

lets see MH bulb cheap end would be $80 every 6-8 months you would need 2 for a 48" fixture so $160 in 2 year 3-4 times plus cost to run, plus ..well you get the point.
I am going to email the company Greg speaks about and get some info from them.
then continue with my research.
thanks for the input guys

greg, to be honest I think most of the guys here are bouncing questions off you. or voincing ther concerns

I wouldn't take it personal.

;)

[GregAW]

don't get so frustrated....its just that you can't expect everyone to jump up and down over a new product because its way cheaper than everything else out there and "looks really bright". Empirical data and clinical results are really necessary to convince the general hobbyist that a new product is worth anything. I find it strange that the apparent manufacturer (www.sunbriteled.com) doesn't even mention the product on their page.

I'm not frustrated about anything. I didn't ask you or anyone else to jump on the band wagon for anything. I was just passing on what I did rather than build my own. We aren't running a clinic and this is a new product and many companies, even those dedicated to the REEF KEEPER don't always have the latest news and information available. I don't really care if you are convinced or not. You are so hep on the Solairs version since it's a name you know. If you were really interested in learning about these lights, Sun-Brite has an email address and you could write and ask them about these new ultra bright LEDs.

This ends my part of this conversation.

[GregAW]

Interesting read.

greg, to be honest I think most of the guys here are bouncing questions off you. or voincing ther concerns

I wouldn't take it personal.

;)

It just sounded that I was being attacked for bringing something new to the table. Sheesh, I guess I'll keep my finds to myself. I like your attitude, if you want to find out something, go to the company and ask.

And I thought it was only OLD PEOPLE like me who hated change! ;)

[Que]

Strarider: If you read this before you write to the sun brite company please see if they also manufacture 4' fluorescent replacement LED tubes in the 6500K temp range. Thanks.

Greg: I looked into these bulbs a bit about 9 months to a year ago and didn't feel confident enough to go out and buy any. I'm glad I didn't since your posting has made me look into them again. I see they're finally getting the Lux levels up to the equivalent of fluorescent tubes. Maybe the time has come. Please let us know how they work out.

I have read sketchy reports of quality issues and am not aware of a source yet that sells tubes in the 6500K range with the light output I want. That doesn't mean they're not out there. I have also not read any info on what is meant by "lifespan". Does this mean that 80% of the LEDs are still working? Does it mean that the LEDs will have diminished to X level by then? I read one spec for a replacement that stated the lux output with "initially" in parentheses. What does that mean? Fluorescents degrade over time and LEDs do too so how much do they degrade and at what rate? Too many questions for me and not enough time to look into them.

Q

[Cory Keeper]

Greg, Neither me nor sploke is advocating MH, And I do think that sploke has a point about the solaris. Hey, if you can afford it, go for it. Its proven (more or less) that it works and the technology behind it is as well. If you have the time to build one (like me) go for it. If not and you still wish to go LEDs, do so.

I am also not attacking you, as others have pointed out. I am simply trying to point out that not enough information is out there. We all are in the fishy stuff right? We all know how manufacturers fudge the numbers and overate their products with little proof. I am doing the same thing to lights as I am to filters. I see little information on this technology and it has not been tested, both in FW and SW.

[Star_Rider]

Que will do still working up my draft to them.

greg, I am an old fart but my job has taught me to "bend like a reed in the wind" ;)

[traelman]

This is a small update.............
I've been really busy lately.......

So far I'm very pleased with my new light.....

[Sploke]

Looks good, like the heat sink. I think its sufficient, especially with the fan! Question - do those LEDs have posts for wirewrap connections, or is it just a pad to solder to? Also - have you thought at all about using lenses on them?

[Cory Keeper]

Matt, it has a kind of small solder pad for making connections. The wiring can be funky though.

Traelman, If your looking for super heat transfer from your LED to your heat sink, try Arctic Silver 5. Most computer shops should sell it locally, though its going to be rather expensive. They also sell an Arctic Silver 5 Epoxy to attach your LEDs, however it is rather permanent.

Now your making me want mine, so close yet so far. heh.

BTW, don't be misled, those things are TINY, you can comfortably seat 6 on a medium sized computer heatsink.

[traelman]

Ive been a little lacking with the updates lately.

I'm pretty happy still with the overall project. The reason that I did this build was for plants, and so far I'm having moderate success. I'm need to get some different plants and see how they will do.

Here are some shots taken today. (I still suck with a camera)

[GregAW]

Have you thought about adding some red and blue LEDs? Someplace I read where plants like/need those colors.

[traelman]

My research found that plants do use the red and blue portion of the light spectrum for growth, one is good for stems/roots and one is good for leaf growth.

Before I add any more lights I want to try some low light type plants, but I have thought about it. I think this setup will be more than sufficient for low light, later I may add more of the white and some red, blue LEDs.

[Cory Keeper]

Hmm, interesting. I think hex tanks require FAR less LEDs per gallon. With my 15 LEDs over my 29 its not quite bright, though the other problem is they are running at less than 500mA, whereas I would like to run them at a full amp. With it running now I'd say its comparable to about 50w of flourescent, and its running about 21w (ummm, wow). I'd love to see it working at full strength.

[Cory Keeper]

any updates? any plants in the tank yet?