Agassizi's died, rearragements

[Mystroe_TheMyst]

I have a 30" and inside there was:

2 breeding kribs
2 blue rams
2 agassizi's
2 bristlenose
1 snail

recently as a result of the kribs ( IMO It was the kribs )
First my bristlenose was killed, and now my agassizi's was beaten up too bad for him to be saved. :(

the tank now has

2 Kribs
2 blue rams
1 pleco

I've moved the last remaining agassizi's into a 5gal. Or should I perhaps put the pair of kribs in there for them to breed. If I can't put the kribs in there I will buy more "cheap" fish as dithers, cause the agassizi's are expensive in Australia. What genius said I didn't need dithers.

so summary:

Will the kribs be ok and breed in the 5gal?
Keep the agassizi's in the 5gal and buy dithers?
Put the rams in the 5gal and just have a tank with dithers and kribs?

[Dwarfnut]

Kribs get very aggressive when they start breeding, so if that is you intent with them, then I would separate them into their own tank. I am somewhat surprised tho because my Agassizzi male is the ruler of ANY tank I put him in, regardless of the other fish!! And that is even without trying to breed them!

If the Rams and Apistos get along ok, them leave them there and move the Kribs.

Bill C.

[Mystroe_TheMyst]

So you think they would be ok in a 5gal, they may be somewhat underspaced...the tank is about 1ft long and about 6-8" deep.

so if that is an option to move them, then thats what I may do.

Also for my 30" I may puit dithers in there such as white clouds, danio's and tetras(larger ones).

also is it true that blue rams only have a max life of about 2yrs?

[Mystroe_TheMyst]

bump:

so I just need an opinion about a pair of breeding kribs in a 5gal...
thats my standing question, thats what I'm thinkin at the moment.

[Dwarfnut]

Well, I hate to be the only opinion, but again, if the Kribs are really breeding, then they will not be 'roaming' around the tank a whole lot, and then the 5 gallon would be fine.

The Rams are a [retty active fish and would not like a 5 gallon, unless of course they were breeding also!

It's your call really, but if you leave the breeding Kribs with other fish in that smallish tank, they will kill again!

It is true that Rams have a pretty short life... 2 to 3 years is about max.

Be careful about how many fish you put in the 30"... it's not a very big tank!

I would go for the tetra's as a dither fish... the white clouds don't tend to do well in warmer water as they are actually a cold water fish... the danios are WAY too spastic for my taste, plus you have a large selection of tetras to choose from. Personally, I like the Lemon or other 'colored' fish that brightens up the tank.

Good luck,
Bill C.

[Tightdog1]

yea tetras would be nice to liven up the tank with colors. but i would put the kribs in the 5g, because they are the problem killing fishies. :(

[Mystroe_TheMyst]

Ok sweet, kribs in the 5gal. Tetras for the 30". Shame the rams only live for a short while.

I think that the kribs would prefer thier own tank. I did realise that the white clouds where a cold water fish, thats why I asked or mentioned that i was thinking about moving them into the tank.

For now there are 2 white clouds and a paradise fish in a 1gal. Hopefully not long period, I'm lookin to give them to a friend.

but I will restock, as it were, my 30". I'm getting a few bristlenoses and other fish...tetras and more plasid fish.

Um, I've been keeping them in a high pH 8 or so, what should I do about lowering the pH, can it be done next time I do the water change? or would it be too much of a change and they would die or somthin. Just timing wise...like quickly or gradual..or does it matter? I'm going to get it around the 7 mark..

[wayne]

Long/medium term a 5 is too small for the kribs, rams or aggasizzi. 5's are only viable for the smaller, more sedentary apistos. Get a new tank or lose some fish. That's my opinion anyway.

[Mystroe_TheMyst]

It may come to that...if they do not find it suitable then they will not breed, in which case I will consider other options. They are still settling in, but they seem to be doing ok.

[Dwarfnut]

A ph of 8 is definitely high for fish like the Rams... they tend to like it around 7 or even lower. MIne sem to be happiest at around 6.8, but then I've never been able to get it lower! If you are going to get it to 7, then I'd try to do it gradually as jumping from 8 to 7 on a single water change would be a real shock! If possible, I'd suggest trying to change about 0.25 points per water change and let them adjust for a couple of days then drop it another 0.25 and so on till you get where you want. How are you planning on dropping it?

SOunds like your 1 gal is already overstocked with the 3 fish... be careful you don't over-stock the 30".

Bill C.

[Mystroe_TheMyst]

Yes it seems overstocked, I've added some fish and now I have

2 blue rams,
1 agassizi's
2 zebra danios
1 leapord danio
1 pearl danio
5 bristlenoses (4 juvi's)
1 1cm krib

I am intending to gardually drop my pH, i.e. take water out each day and add pH down till it is at the required or desired pH. Most likely 10-15lts at 1 time.

[Harry Tolen]

Your proposed method of reducing pH will not work. The buffers in the water will counteract the pH down you are adding, especially if you do water changes every day.

The only real way to reduce pH is to reduce KH (the buffering capacity) with reverse osmosis water (usually at around a 50/50 mix with tapwater) and then let the tank seek its new equilibrium point.

Using an acidic additive such as pH down will temporarily reduce the pH, but it will bounce back quickly. And the bouncing up and down will be worse for your fish than if you did nothing.

If you have any items in the tank that would tend to increase KH (coral, certain types of limestone, etc.), then you should remove them, up your water changes, and see what happens. Other than that, unless you want to invest in an R/O system, don't mess with it.

[Mystroe_TheMyst]

ok, well I haven't got any items that will buffer the pH upward....

I don't intend to invest either...

how about this...

Bag the fish, Add pH down for dramatic drop into the tank. Float the bagged fish and then gradually add tank water into the bags over an hour or so until they are used to it in which case I will continue to add pH down.

I did that when I first got the fish except from a 7, to a 8. This time I'm going back from an 8 to a 7.

How about this idea?

[JSchmidt]

Using acids (e.g., pH Down) to decrease pH generally doesn't work because your water contains buffers (e.g., calcium carbonate) that are generally represented as KH. The buffer acts like a sponge to soak up any acids you add; once the buffer has absorbed as much acid as it can, pH will drop, often rapidly.

The problem is stability. With no buffer, your water is much more prone to wild pH swings, and it's not easy to keep pH from continually dropping, because a byproduct of nitrification is acid.

Even worse in this scenario, every time you do a partial water change, you add KH back to the tank. You can guess what happens: pH shoots back up until you add enough acid to drop it. The pH yo-yo is very stressful to the fish.

The responsible solution, if you're not willing to invest in RO as Harry suggests, is to keep fish that are appropriate to your water conditions and tank size.

Jim