CO2 Regulators HELP!

[moore1]

I am looking at purchasing a CO2 regulator. I am down to the M3, JBJ or the Milwalkee Instruments. Any insight on the one to go with? I want a silinoid which all these have. Also what other components are recommended with this (reactor, diffuser, ph monitor, etc).

thanks in advance!

[superjohnny]

You may want to take this to the Equipment & DIY forum.

I have heard from other people that the Mulwaukee is a good one. I have one coming in the mail. I think any of the 3 would work ok. JBJ has great lights, can't speak to the quality of their regulators though.

And yes a solenoid is nice to have. It took me forever to figure out how to spell & pronounce that one :)

[moore1]

besides the regulator that comes with a solinoid, needle valve and bubble counter, whatelse did you get for your setup? Did you get a diffuser to disperse the CO2 gas in the tank? I am trying to figure out whatelse to get. I might get a ph monitor to make things simple too.

[superjohnny]

I'm going to try feeding the CO2 into my canister filter. If it doesn't cause an air-lock it should diffuse well enough. If that doesn't work I will get (or more likely make) a diffuser that works inline with my canister. I didn't think there would be enough need for a ph monitor so I opted against it. I'd rather spend the $100 on another filter or more light or something.

Not to be mean or anything but it's spelled solenoid. To remember I think of it as sole (as in the sole of your shoe) and noid. Just FYI, not trying to offend :)

[bobalston]

Take a look at my web site for info on various regulators. I personally use the Tap-Rite #742 sold by Rapids Wholesale and others. Others have also reported good success with this one.

http://members.cox.net/tulsaalstons/AquaticPlants.htm#High%20Pressure%20CO2

Bob

[125gJoe]

My first regulator was "M-3" and it failed. Of course that was part my fault (I think), since the CO2 tank ran out of gas. Running out completely could damage the regulator -- so I have heard...

I now have a 'fixed working pressure' AquaMedic regulator that seems fine. The first week was frustrating getting it to stabilize, or get a steady bubble flow from it. The "drift" seems to have stopped.

[JLudwig]

My first regulator was "M-3" and it failed. Of course that was part my fault (I think), since the CO2 tank ran out of gas. Running out completely could damage the regulator -- so I have heard...

Smells like Urban legend to me, running out of gas should never damage anything, including your fish if you do things right.

As long as there is liquid in a CO2 tank it will have the same pressure. After you are just working on gas, no liquid left, the pressure begins to drop, at which point some regulators fail to regulate and let out all the remaining gas at once (they should _not_ break). This is the so-called end of tank dump that has killed a lot of fish... the very very simple solution to this problem is to keep most of the pressure drop in the system over a needle valve. Folks were using these sintered CO2 diffusors without a needle value, relying on the diffusor to reg. pressure - very bad idea. use a needle valve, no problem with dumping...

at any rate, I use a cheap homebrewing regulator and needle valve from clippard, total cost of system was something like 150 US with a full tank, could not be happier, 2 years on one system, 3 on the other, absolutely no problems.

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by JLudwig
Smells like Urban legend to me, running .......regulators fail to regulate and let out all the remaining gas at once (they should _not_ break). This is the so-called end of tank dump that has killed a lot of fish......... Urban Legend to some -- not to me.
The 'regulated' side of my old M-3 is stuck at 30psi...
The diaphram inside the regulator can be damaged by "end-of-tank" dumps. Unless the 3 or 4 articles on this subject are actually CO2 Urban Legends..!

Either way, my M-3 'bit the dust' on a 'end of tank dump'. I prefer never to buy another M-3 CO2 regulator and risk wasting (more) money... :rolleyes:

[125gJoe]

Originally posted by JLudwig


Smells like..........
..........
Folks were using these sintered CO2 diffusors without a needle value, relying on the diffusor to reg. pressure - very bad idea. use a needle valve, no problem with dumping........

You 'can' still have a "dump" of CO2 with a needle valve. The main pressure gage should be checked regularily. Look for any sudden drops in psi -- and don't wait to re-fill the tank when you notice a change.

It's never a good idea to use pressurized CO2 without a needle valve.... ...can't imagine that! :(

[JLudwig]

It's never a good idea to use pressurized CO2 without a needle valve.... ...can't imagine that! :(

Well, one older internet vendor sold these "high pressure" CO2 systems almost exclusively for a few years... infact you can prolly still find a lot of details about these setups on the Krib.

M-3 doesn't actually make the regulators, do you know brand/model it was? You _were_ using a needle valve... NuPro/Clippard? If so, could you please post all of the details of this setup to the aquatic plants digestm (fins.actwin.com)?? I have never heard of anything like this, and the running conventional wisdom on the list is that with a needle value you're okay, it would be really helpful to get this story out methinks....

The idea is that the needle valve should be operating in a choked flow regime during a dump and therefore regulate the max flow to something safe.... but this is theory and you actually lost equipment....

[125gJoe]

The 'M-3' gauge has a Clippard needle valve on it. I see no other brand names on the regulator.

I will ge back and research the warnings about "end-of-tank-dump" issues and diaphragm damage.

[bobalston]

For links to articles on end-of-tank dump, take a look at my web site, link is provided in an earlier post.

Bob

[125gJoe]

Bob, can you direct me to "end-of-tank-dump" and how it can damage the internal diaphragm of the regulator?

Thanks..

(guess I missed it..) :(

[bobalston]

Found one posting that refers to this kind of regulator damage. From my reading I do not think this is very common.

Bob

[JLudwig]

80gJoe,

Have you tried using your broken regulator? My wife has a lot of experience with compressed gases, I had mentioned your problem to her, she said it is much more likely that your gauge is broken and not the diaphram.... with the M3 regulator, the needle valve does not unscrew? Checkout the MNV-4K2 valve from Clippard, see if this is the same... if not, they may have went really cheap on your needle valve and this is the cause of problems... I use cheap, (and I mean _cheap_ ~ $45-50) regulators and have never had issues...:rolleyes:

btw, is M3 back? I placed an other with them about a year ago, I thought they had closed shop: voicemail full, no one answering phones, etc..

[125gJoe]

We had the same problems with M-3. We placed an order for a complete CO2 set-up and we got no response. Oh, we did get a reply months later after we told them several times to cancel our order. They asked if we still wanted our order... Way too late...

The M-3 (sticker on gauge), we have that is bad was from Florida Driftwood.

The AquaMedic (fixed pressure) regulator is from BigAl's and it's working good.

The old M-3 is stuck at over 30psi on the gauge. This made it very hard to control the CO2 flow rate and it kept drifting a lot. I think the diaphragm was damaged.

All I know for sure is that the regulator broke when the 'end-of-tank-dump' happened...