Starting a new tank - advice needed

[Lukara]

Hi, I'm starting a new tank but before I even begin to set anything up, I want to plan as much as I can in advance.

New Tank info:

50 gallon (4' long x 20" high x 13" deep)
Custom hood with reflective mylar as reflector and fits 4 standard 40w fluorescent lights
Pressurized CO2
PH will be 6.7-6.8
KH will be 5
GH will be 3
5 watt UV
Future tank inhavitants: angels, rasboras and a TBD algae eater

What I want:

Plants that don't need enormous maintenance, such as anubias, java moss, java ferns... which I plan to attach to bogwood and rocks.

What I would like your advice on, taking into account the plants I mentioned:

1) What kind of fertilizing regimen do I need? I'm thinking the following only dosed once a week (please correct me if this is wrong):
50% weekly water changes (to reset nutrients)
1/2 tsp K2SO4
1/2 KNO3 (if needed)
10 ml traces
2.5 ml iron
2) What kind of lighting is right with these plants? Would 2x40watts be alright?
3) I really only wanted to keep these kinds of plants in the tank, but since they are fairly slow growing, what can I do to overcome the dreaded new tank algae outbreak?
4) What kind of rocks should I use that won't leech anything into the water column?
5) Will using normal 2-3mm gravel be sufficient? (since nothing will really be planted in the substrate)
6) Do I need pressurized CO2 with this kind of setup?
7) Do I need to consider anything else with this kind of setup?

Thanks in advance :)

[TKOS]

I grow java fern in a small 5 gallon tank with only a bubble filter and no ferts. The light levels are 2 watts per gallon which is higgh for that tank. If you want low maintenance then you will probably not want high light plants and CO2 as this will tend to create fast growing plants and possible algae problems if not controlled properly. The plants you mentioned will grow fine with a lower light level (2 40 watt bulbs would be fine) and the occasional dosing of ferts, say once a week with a water change.

I am definatly not a plant expert but the simple regieme with simple plants has worked well in my tanks.

[MrGoodbytes]

I agree with TKOS. If you want a low-maintenance tank, use two tubes instead of four. It will make things a lot easier since things will run slower.

Graeme

[djlen]

Let's start with the lighting because there is a large difference between 2 tubes(80watts) and 4 tubes(160 watts).
Keep in mind that CO2 will enhance the growth of any planted tank regardless of watts/gal.
With 2 tubes you can grow the plants you mention as well as Cryptocoryne and some Swords without CO2. I have a 55 with 80 watts(w/CO2) and it's the most rewarding tank I have.....and the easiest.
With 4 tubes you can grow more plants and they'll grow faster and more full, but with 3 watts+/gal. I would then say that CO2 becomes more necessary. More wattage....more of a need to get the plants growing faster. Also at that wattage I would start it up with stems and fast growers to try to avoid the initial burst of algae that is almost inevitable in an unseasoned tank with 3 watts/gal. You can still grow the types you want to have over the long haul, but they are not what I call nutrient hogs and won't compete for nutrients like stems will. The stems can then be phased out later when the others are established.
Maybe, down the road, after the tank is well established you can cut out the CO2 and let it go on it's own, but for a start up I would go with it at 3watts/gal.
BTW, I use 6700K 'daylight' fluorescents from Lowes and my plants grow well under them.
When considering balance, you have to include nutrients into the mix. More light, with or without CO2, more ferts. You will have to find that balance. But all you want to do is get them growing well without over-doing it on the ferts.
The plants won't need any ferts for a week or so as they will have much of what they need stored. Then start slow. I would go slower than your estimates. The K and Traces sound good after your weekly 50%er.
Test for N and P before adding any or either and add only when below 5ppm N and 0.5 P. Watch your plants and see how they respond. I would leave the Fe out of the mix until/unless you see a need for it. It is included in most Trace mixes and too much of it will cause algae issues.
I would go with a bit finer gravel, because you never know when you might change your mind and want to add some Rosette type plants. Once it's in there are you going to want to tear it all up and change gravel? Some people sprinkle a thin layer of peat moss on the bottom of the tank before adding substrate. This can be of significant help in establishing the tank sooner.
One last thing.......I would suggest that you strongly consider 3 -5 Otos at the very beginning, especially if you elect to go with the 4 tube set-up.
I'm sure you will get other opinions. This one just happened to be mine.:)

Len

[superjohnny]

A couple of things...

First, I'd like to comment on what a well thought out, organized post this is. This is a great example of how a question should be asked. :)

The only thing I don't like about my tank (36"x24"x12") is it's width. 12" wide does not give me much room to create an aquascape. The tank was a gift to me so I can't complain, but my next tank will be 18"-24" wide.

Hope that helps :)

[Lukara]

Thanks for your responses and Superjohnny thank you for the compliment :)

I've been researching and thinking about how to proceed and this is what I think I will do. Again, please feel free to give your opinions, they are definitely welcomed.

Lighting/CO2:
I think I will go with 2x40w (6500K) fluorescent tubes with CO2. First, the plants I want are low-moderate light plants and slow growers. Second, with the substrate, rocks and driftwood I plan on putting in there the actual volume of water won't really be 50 gallons, it will actually be more like 40-45 gallons. Third, the plants will be mounted mostly on the rocks and wood so the light won't need to travel too far to reach them.

Fertilizers:
I will fertilize only once a week with K2SO4 and traces after my water change. KNO3 I will dose only if needed. My traces don't include iron. I made sure of that when I purchased it for my other tank because of the potential causes it can cause. I feel more comfortable being in control of how much iron gets into my tank. So given this, I will dose 2.5 ml weekly after my water change. Or should I wait and dose if I see deficiencies?

Substrate:
Good point about changing my mind in the future. I am pretty dead set on the types of plants I want, but with my other tank I did change my mind on some things after the fact. So, I will give this some more thought. The only thing I don't like about that is that the smaller rocks get into my python. I will probably just tie a net or something onto the faucet attachment. Should I put a layer of flourite under my substrate also in case I change my mind? Or will that just cause me problems?

Rocks:
Still undecided. Can anyone recommend any? My main concern is that I don't want anything leeching into the water.

Algae eating crew:
I will get a few Otto's. If need be in the future (hopefully there won't be a need) I will get an SAE.

When to aquascape:
This is also an issue I forgot to mention in my initial post. I am planning on going the fishless cycling route and following Chris Cow's recommendations (http://www.aaquaria.com/aquasource/cycle2.shtml). Should I cycle the tank in this manner with all the aquascaping in place? Or should I put the substrate, rocks and wood in the tank, then cycle it and put the plants after the tank is cycled?

Again your input is appreciated very much and thanks in advance :)

[TKOS]

The main thing when looking for rocks is to make sure they go with your setup. If you are planning on keeping S African Cichlids then rocks with carbonates are great as they help keep the pH high. But othwise you should be looking for rocks that do not contain much carbonate. A simple test that works is to place the rock in a acid solution (vinegar usually works well) and see if there is any fuzzing. If not then you should be good.

I think you want to add the plants after the cycle is complete as the plants will slow it down as they use the ammonia and nitrites.

[Jamie]

I think the biggest bit of advice that I could give is to GO SLOW. You are making a great start by asking questions to help prevent mistakes. I just set up my 150 about 2 months ago and had nothing but problems from the get go. I bought my plants, planted them in the tank, put a mess load of fish in there, and then fertilized immediately. Bad choices. The plants that you want are very low maintanence and are low nutrient absorbers for the most part. Consider this when you fertilize. Also, I wouldn't recommend liquid ferts until your plants take hold and start growing. You have to remember that if your plants aren't established/growing, then the ferts you add are just going to stay in the water column. The unused ferts are going to be feasted upon by algae. Especially if you have high light. This is what happened to me. I have taken a huge step back and have geared down quite a bit. I cut out my CO2 and fertilize a lot less. I did this because I have a CO2 gas off problem anyway. I have done this for about a week and I'm seeing positive and negative results. Positive results are that I have no algae so far and the fish are doing great. Negatives, some plants aren't responding too well. It's mainly my swords...but I also uprooted them and moved them around so I think they'll come around. I like the idea of slow growth...it equates to much less work. With the set up you're suggesting, with those plants, I think you will find it to be very rewarding and beautiful. And very importantly, easily maintained. Welcome to the planted world. This forum is great and will be a fantastic resource when you have questions.

[Lukara]

I just realized this post is probably not in the right forum. :(

[750t]

Where did that come from?:confused:

[Lukara]

I mean that I was reading this post top to bottom and it occurred to me that this isn't really a plant question, it's more of a freshwater general question. My questions aren't about plants, they are about my setup taking into consideration these kinds of plants. :)

[SnakeIce]

ya but with any tank with plants in it, you need all the specialized advice you can get by posting in the plant forum ;) :)

[Lukara]

Well then I'm glad to hear that I did post in the right forum :)

I just wanted to clarify. I got the impression that what I said about probably posting in the wrong forum might have been taken the wrong way. I meant no offense to anyone and I appologize if I did.

I've been frequenting AC for a while now and have seen how valuable the advice given here is. There are very few aquaria message boards that I trust and this one is way up there on the trust list.

Thank you all who replied, I can't wait to get things started :)

[djlen]

First of all, you are definitely in the RIGHT forum.
Second, I have to say how nicely Jamie has come along with the knowledge and advice he/she has given.
I would refer you to Jamie's post as an excellent reference point.
I would not stop the flow of CO2, but if it works for someone, I would say go for it.
I always tell people that there are great advantages to loading a newly set up tank with plants, especially the nutrient hogs, and letting them do the 'cycling' for you. In actuality, there is no cycle when you start with many plants and a few fish. Everything happens naturally.
The tricky part is when to start fertilizing. Some people say to start fertilizing right away. Some people like to give them some time to settle in, and considering that many plants come from growers that feed the plants to get maximum growth, they are loaded with stored nutrients in most cases when you plant them. Therefore, I suggest waiting a week or even two before feeding. Then watch them and start slowly with the fertilization process.
Remember to try and find and keep the balance of light/fish and nutrients and you should be ok.
Any mulm, substrate, filter media etc., from a healthy tank that can be added to the startup process can do nothing but good.
Clean and boil your bogwood thoroughly to remove as many tannins as possible unless you like tea colored water.
Fe is a necessary fert, but unless you are growing Iron loving plants that will uptake it from the water column it does not need to be dosed in the initial stages. Later, you may or may not see Iron deficiencies and then might consider it however.

Len