Is it really this complicated?

[AquaVelva]

OK...I am getting ready to re-work my 75 gallon tank and make it into a planted tank. I have been reading the various posts on this forum and I am learning a great deal! Thanks everyone! I can't wait to get started.

BUT...my head is spinning after reading the fertilizer sticky! I made a list...here it is:

Use Flourish for trace elements
For nitrate use SpectracideStump Remover or salt petre
For phosphate use Fleet Enema (whatever that is!)
For potassium use No-Salt / Nu-Salt
For magnesium use epsom salt
Use Flourish Iron for iron
Use Flourish Excel for carbon (along with CO2)
For KH use baking soda
Finally, use Jobes Fern and Palm or Flourish Root Tabs for rooted plants

This is quite a list for a guy who barely passed chemistry! Is all this really needed? Is there an easier way to provide all the nutrients? Miracle Gro or something like that?

...AV

[Captain Hook]

To be honest I have never had a planted tank but have been doing a lot of research about it lately. I do know for sure that is a lot of fertilizer to be adding to a tank. With a decent amount of light (??) I think you would have a problem with algae. I don't think you need Excel if you have CO2. Other more knowledgeable people will be able to recommend what you will need and might want to get.

[Richer]

Looks like you have a good list of nutrients and where to get them. However, before you run off to get the stuff, what sorta tank are you planning to run? To me, it seems like you want to run a high lighted tank. A low lighted tank wouldn't need 3/4 of what you have listed.
If you have a decent CO2 system (I suggest a pressurized system for a 75 gallon), then you won't need flourish excel. Its smarter (and cheaper in the long run) to invest in a good pressurized system (including a good power reactor), rather then spend extra money on Excel. Excel works well on small tanks, but if you break it down, running a tank for long periods of time on Excel becomes very expensive. A pressurized system costs a lot to begin with, but refills are cheap (10 bucks canadian over here), and in the long run, it is much cheaper than buying a bottle of excel once every couple of weeks.
You only need to raise your kh levels if its lower than 3. If its higher than 3, you shouldn't have a problem with kh levels. If you do however, have a lower kh, baking soda should work. However, I prefer using crush coral. All you need to do is obtain a very small amount of crush coral, and put that into your filter. It should raise the kh of your tank quite nicely, and its more of a permanant solution than adding baking soda everytime you do a water change.

Don't touch fertillizers like miracle gro... that will only lead to a large algae bloom in your tank. I personally stay away from jobe sticks. I've heard of tanks going into algae blooms because the person cleaning the tank accidently distrubed the substrate and brought a jobe stick to the surface of his/her substrate. Nasty stuff.

HTH
-Richer

[djlen]

It's really not all that complicated. Plants need light, carbon, N,P,K and Traces. The amounts of the elements depend largely on the amount of light you want to supply.
More light.....better plant growth and more variety of plants.......more work.......more ferts.
Less light.....slower plant growth and less variety......less ferts.....less work.
If you want it to be easy, don't go over 150 - 200 watts with your lighting on your 75 gal. tank.
You can have a nicely planted tank at that wattage.
Your tank will be unique to every other tank in existence. Therefore it will have it's own special needs. There is, to my knowledge, no single product that will supply everything. It's a mix and match situation.
The problem/challenge of planted tanks is that they constantly change and the idea is to see the changes and make the necessary, subtle adjustments.

Are we having fun yet??!!??

Len

[mogurnda]

Your tank will be unique to every other tank in existence. Couldn't have said it better. Test, tweak, test, tweak. To be able to know what needs to be added, you will need to know what's in there. That means testing pH, alkalinity, nitrate and phosphate at a minimum.

[DIYMatt]

Richer is correct, more info on what you are going to do would be beneficial. Also, IMO the reason that you can add some many different nutreints to your tank is due to the fact that you probably won't need them all. Some of the nutreints may be plentiful in your source water(magnesium, potassium and phosphate for example). Or they may be provided from your substrate choice(Fe). Its all about balance. If they made an all in one solution, you would be adding things your plants didn't need more of, which could lead to algae blooms. Also, when some of the nutrients are mixed together in the concentrated levels they are in the bottles, they bind together or chelate, making them unuseable to the plants. I'm not a chemist but I think that is the general idea. For example now I only use Flourish, Flourish trace, Nu-salt, and K2PO4 for Phosphorus(will be switching to fleet enema if I run out of it). When I did dose Fe and N I got some algae growth, when I stopped so did the visible algae. Trial and error is unfortunately how most of us learn. What works on one setup usually doesn't work the same on another. My advice is get comprehensive and quality test kits. Ask others about what they recommend, I don't like my Aquarium Pharmaceuticals and Hagen kits.

But, all in all it really isn't nearly as complicated as those of us on these boards make it sound. It is really a rewarding hobby once you get your own system, really:)

[AquaVelva]

Thanks for the responses. It just seems a little confusing at this point, but I expect trial, error, and time to be good teacher. I am guessing that with any particular setup you find success and failure. Kinda like gardening...some folks can grow great corn but their beans never produce, but the next guy has the opposite results! (Sorry for the CORNy analogy!)

However, it seems that on one hand, you want to load your tank full of plants to use up all the excess nutrients so as to not have an algae problem, but on the other hand you need to add nutrients for your plants to flourish. It is this balancing act that I am trying to get straight in my mind, but I suspect that when I actually get things started I will understand better! Experience is usually the best teacher.

A little more info here...my 75 gallon tank is now equipped with 192 watts of compact fluorescent lighting that I got from AH Supply (would highly recommend them), my substrate is what I call "regular" aquarium gravel (probably 2-3 mm pebbles). The tank has been up and running for several years, but I have always had plastic plants...never had the guts to try real plants. I am planning on putting together a pressurized CO2 system, after having considered the DIY yeast method, but I decided that it sounded like a pain in the @#$% to maintain.

So, can anyone recommend a kit for testing pH, alkalinity, nitrate and phosphate, etc?

Also, with regard to fertilization, how does the fish stocking level relate? I want my live plants, but I still maintain this strange notion that an aquarium must contain fish! And since this tank has been up and running for a long time, what effect will the aged (poop-a-fied) gravel have on the plants...and algae growth?

Again, thanks everyone for all the good information....

...AV

[mogurnda]

I am finding fishpoo to be an almost complete source of NO3 and PO4 in my tank.

The Salifert NO3 test and FasTest alkalinity test have been good for me. The pH and PO4 test kits I use are adequate, but not so great that I'd recommend them.

[29gallonsteve]

It took me a lot of time (with test kits) to find out what I really need in my planted tank...

From when I started to dose it was 6-9 months.

It was 2-3 months From the point where I finally talked to enough people and weeded through all the myths and generalizations:

2-3 months...You see, you can blindly follow everyone else's advice (which will sometimes be successful), or you can USE the information in the advice to come to some intelligent conclusions.

You know how, on very rare occassions, doctors sometimes can't figure out what is wrong with a person? Sometimes it is like matching a constantly changing puzzle...it is because every one is unique. Even though everyone has lungs, heart...etc, no one person (and in a similar way...tank) is exactly the same.

There are many variables. While some things work for many people with success, that doesn't mean you are in the majority or minority...

So...what did _I_ learn? Use good test kits to measure PO4, NO3, pH, KH. Get a few plants that always show signs of deficiency quickly (giant hygro and Hygrophila polysperma).

Control the variables that you can control...
Make sure your NO3 is at 5-10ppm, you have good CO2 injection (based on pH/KH table), lighting is up to par, PO4 is good. The only thing left is Mg/Ca (can often - at least for me - be replentished by weekly 50% water changes), Iron, Potassium and Micros.

You can use the hygro to discern the last three...

This is the logic that started me on the road to balance.

But get a water report from your local area and talk to locals that have successful tanks. They know the water.

Thanks,
Steve

[DIYMatt]

Perfect summation Steve! Can I just send notes to you and have you compose the posts? It would probably save a lot of everyones time versus having to wade through my posts:)

Matt

[29gallonsteve]

Matt...

Thanks for that compliment! I'd be happy to, but there would be a price to pay...What kind of plants to you have in your tank? Just Kidding...LOL

While I am responsible for the writing of that post, I can't take the credit for the knowledge...everyone on the plant boards that I have visited over the last year has contributed to pulling me out of the cloud of information overload...

Thanks,
Steve