Yellow tang help!

[rica5tully]

I've had a yellow tang for three weeks. He's been great: eating like a pig and really energetic.

Yesterday it seemed like he wasn't as hungry. Today he isn't really interested in food at all. He's lethargic- just swims around slowly and hides more than normal. And he's really working his gills. It seems like he's breathing heavily.

I just put two snails and three hermit crabs in there...I hope I didn't introduce some parasite into the tank! One snail died and I removed it.

My tank:

55 gallon

1 margarita snail
3 hermit crabs (one unaccounted for)
1 ocellaris clown
1 yellow tang (the one in question)

Amonia- 0
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- around 5
SG 1.025
Temp: 80 (a little high)

Any suggestions? Should I give him a freshwater dip? Does he sound sick? Do tangs just have weird appetites sometimes? but if so, why the labored breathing?

Thanks...I'm really worried.

[Guy W]

It sounds like he's not doing real well but I wouldn't jump to the conculsion that it's a parasite. You didn't post your pH. What is that testing at?

Also, was the tang healthy when you got it, or was it faded and real skinny? I've seen a lot of fish, when I worked at the LFS, just give up and die after a week or two of them coming in. I think it maybe due to collection methods, well thats my theory anyway.

How is your water movement in the tank? Are you getting adiquite oxygen exchange?

Guy

[rica5tully]

Thanks for your response.

My PH is 8.3

I guess I wondered about the parasite since I just put those 5 inverts in the tank.

I'll keep an eye on him over the next couple of days...hopefully he'll turn around.

Yes, he was skinny when I first got him but I fattened him up and he was doing great for the last two weeks.

Thanks

[Guy W]

I'm not sure, but I don't think it's likely, or maybe not even possible, for inverts to carry a parasite to a fish. I've never heard of it anyway.

Guy

[rica5tully]

This morning I got up and my ocellaris clown was basically laying on the bottom and acting weird. When I turned the lights on I saw he had Ich spots.

The tang's white stripe is bright and he's still not eating.

SO...I put him in the quarantine tank (10 gal.) and added methylene blue. I gave the clown a freshwater dip for about 20 seconds (he got stressed but seems o.k. now) and the rockwork is messed up in my tank from trying to get the tang out. ARGGHH!

What should I do? Should I assume it's Ich (like I've assumed so far)? If it is, do I have to leave my main tank empty for 2 months to have the Ich die off completely?

I can't think of any other reason the tang and clown would quit eating, breathe heavy, and become sluggish.

Thanks.

[mogurnda]

When you wrote the tang was breathing hard, I was going to guess cryptoracyon (ich). It goes for the gills first. According to what I've read, the tank needs to be fishless for about a month to be sure. The parasites won't last longer than 3 weeks.

Inverts don't carry ich, although they could bring it with water from the LFS. More likely, the tang had an undetectable case before it got into the tank.

[rica5tully]

Thanks. Questions about that:

1) I don't see any actual spots on the tang (he's just acting like ich) Can you see Ich spots on a yellow tang?

2) How should I treat him? I've got methylene blue in the water and I'm going to lower the specific gravity to 1.012 or so.

3) Does methylene blue contaminate a tank for future inverts like copper does?

Thank you!

[mogurnda]

I've never heard on methylene blue as a treatment for cryptocaryon. What I have seen recommended, and had some luck with, are copper, formalin and hyposalinity. But there are probably people better qualified to answer that one.

The first place cryptocaryon goes is the gill. The fish will breathe hard, and act stressed, like your tang. I assume you will soon see spots on the tang, even if there are none now. Both fish will need to go to hospital for treatment, until you are absolutely certain it is gone.

[rica5tully]

With hyposalinity, should I buffer the freshwater with baking soda like Robert Fenner writes in "Conscientious Marine Aquarist"?

Are you saying that I should put my two fish in the hospital tank for a month so that the Ich will die off out of the main tank? That sounds risky: my hospital tank is small.

Thanks for your help

[rica5tully]

One more question, how do you guys get pictures under your screen names?

[kreblak]

For Ich treatment, the most effective way to deal with it is using copper. COpper kills Ich dead. Since you are using a QT, you may treat with copper withour fear of contaminating your main tank.

Ich is a free swimming protozoan parasite that attacks a fish's gills first. It attaches, embeds within the fish, and leeches nutrients. Once it has fed sufficiently, it forms a cyst (the characteristic white spot) that protrudes through the skin. It stays this way for several days, maturing. Eventually, the cyst matures and falls off to the substrate, where it begins dividing into 200-600 new free swimming protozoans. The cyst ruptures, releasing the new parasite into the water colums, where they must find a new host. The whole process takes about 3-4 weeks to complete. The bear of treating for Ich is that the parasite is vulnerable to medication ONLY during the free swimming phase of it's life. Once it encysts, it is more or less invincible. FW dips will help unattach cysts, but it doesn't kill them outright.

Leaving your tank free of fish for a month will rid it of the parasite. Ich cannot live without fish, period. Inverts do not carry it. Meanwhile, in the QT, you can treat with a variety of methods. As I said before copper is highly effective. I have used No-Ich Marine (available at www.drsfostersmith.com) with great success in my own tank. Formulin works very well, too. Since you are treating in the QT, all of these options are open to you.

Treat however you are comfortable, but you MUST keep up treatment for three weeks after Ich symptoms are no longer visible on the fish, otherwise you may miss one. One Ich parasite is all it takes to create 600 more, so be dilligent.

[MonoSebaelover]

What I would do is take the fish out of the display tank and crank the temp close to as hot as the thermometer will go (generally around 96). This dramatically speeds up the ichs life cycle since they need more food at higher temps and with no hosts they go through their life cycle quicker. I had some disease breakout in my big tank (209) in Feb of this year and the tank was full of Triggs, Wrasses,and an Eel. So I divided them up into smaller tanks and cranked up the heat for a week, and then I had to add them back before the other tanks crashed and everything was fine. Knock on wood they are all perfectly healthy know and no problems since. So that is what I would do and it should work fine. I would recommend keeping them out for at least two weeks though (again this is my opinion and the way I would go about doing it). Anyway, hope this helps and good luck.

[mogurnda]

One more question, how do you guys get pictures under your screen names?
Go to user CP, and you will see a box for "change avatar" in the "edit options" area. If it's the right size and has an http, it's yours.

[tricksterpup]

hmmm..
I think something else is going on here. The ick is a symptom of something else in the tank. Fish get this parasite only when they are stressed out to the max. I read a book last night that was appropiate, they called the yellow tang the canary of the ocean. they are very sensitive to their waters and will be the first to die off or show signs of distress. I get the feeling that there is more here since your snail died and your clown came down with the parasite.
There might be something in your water that might be causing the issue that is not detected in your water tests. I had the same problem at my old apartment and couldnt keep anything in my reef tank or fresh water tanks. Fish kept on dying on me. Every thing came out ok but friends of mine in the same location (on the same city water) had the same problems. We started to have bad hair alage at the same time, and fish started to die off. I was so angry and frustrated I gave up on the reef tank.
I would start doing some water changes with RO water, See if that helps your fish.


jim

[rica5tully]

O.K. now my yellow tang and my clownfish are on their "deathbed"

The clownfish was covered with white spots/mucus? this morning and is gasping for air. I gave him a freshwater dip for about 30 seconds and that seemed to clean him off.

The tang was laying on the bottom and not breathing. Right before I took him out and disposed of him he started breathing again. I gave him a quick freshwater dip and that seemed to help.

I lowered the SG (in my hospital tank) to about 1.012 and dosed with copper. I don't have a test kit so I just followed the directions on the bottle.

Is there anything else I can do? Both fish are gasping for air and you can see it takes all they have to stay alive.

Thanks

[kreblak]

Whoa, you say that you have lowered the sg in the hospital tank to 1.012? If your fish are permanent resident of that tank until they are better, than you must leave the sg at 1.023, or whatever it is in your main tank! Lowering sg that much will kill your fish just as quickly as Ich or ammonia!

[rica5tully]

I have several books (Conscientious marine aquarist, Clownfish-by Wilkerson, and Aquarium Fish magazine) that say that you should use hyposalinity to make parasites drop off and allow for easier osmoregulation. They recommend dropping SG down to 1.010 (I didn't get that crazy).

I've also heard that professional hatheries keep their SG at 1.020 or so to save on salt.

[kreblak]

All I know for sure is that I had my QT at 1.018 as a result of incorrect measurements, and my main tank at 1.023, and when I trensferred the fish over, they got real squirrely and died within a day.

That was when I was first starting out, and it was two sick damsels. Seeing as how my damsels have lived through just about everything, I have to blame the difference in SG for their sudden demise. Just my experience. If Fenner's book says it is all right, then I don't dispute that.

[reefpicker]

For $$ reasons I kept my clownfish grow out tanks at or around 1.018 ALWAYS.

I do not see how a 1.013 salinity can kill your fish unless they are extremely delicate or they are too sick that any stress will kill them.

I would say that as long as you do it slowly it should work. Just remember that a sick fish is already stress out and you do not want to further stress them....