C02 thoughts.

[Blown 346]

I have been browsing and I might make my own DIY C02 system.

My tank is 125 gallons, Im starting with low light plants, but with all the talk of Having C02 etc I think I can benefit from using it. But will My DIY C02 setup be enough for my tank?

I was going to use a 2 liter bottle, for the mixing etc. Then have a smaller bottle connected to the large one just incase of any fluids getting transferred. Then have a airline from that smaller bottle go into the tank with my Saltwater wood airstone to diffuse the bubbles into micro bubbles. Would thi be enough to benefit me for time beiong in the beginning stages?

Obviously the more plant life I have the more C02 I will need, Correct?

If so can anyone point me in the direction of a somewhat cheap C02 setup that I can work on getting.

Thanks.

[KarlTh]

Big tank for DIY CO2. You'd be wanting around three gallons of mix.

[Blown 346]

Big tank for DIY CO2. You'd be wanting around three gallons of mix.


How would I go about connecting 3 of these DIY C02 contraptions together?
If I can connect 3 of these, could I use a 3 way valve to connect all of the airlines together into one airstone?

[Blown 346]

Big tank for DIY CO2. You'd be wanting around three gallons of mix.


Is there a way to connect three of these together? If so could I use a 3 way valve to connect all 3 together, and connect 3 airlines into one airstone?

[Squawkbert]

Right - use T fittings or a manifold to connect.

I have a 46g. I use 2 Gallons of mix. I'd guess you will need at least 4g.

[Blown 346]

Can you better descibe a manifold? A pic would help even better of how all these bottle would go together.

[fabsroman]

I don't do DIY CO2, but one thing I noted is that these guys are suggesting 3 to 4 gallons of mix, so you are looking at 6 to 8 two liter bottles, not just 3 of them. I read your other thread about getting started in freshwater, coming from saltwater, and wanting to start a planted tank.

One thing you might want to focus on is a drop checker. I wish I had done that when I started out. If you get it right, that thing will tell you exactly what you need in terms of CO2. Get started, install the drop checker, put in some plants, and then start a DIY CO2 system. If it isn't enough CO2, the drop checker will let you know and then you can worry about increasing the CO2 system output.

[Blown 346]

Ok great, Where can I find one of these drop checkers?

[fabsroman]

I bought mine off of ebay a couple of weeks ago. Here is an example of one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Co2-Drop-Checker-for-Aquarium-Tank_W0QQitemZ310051934899QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Just do a search for "drop checker" on ebay and it will give you several options. The tricky part is creating 4dKH water to use in the drop checker. Luckily, I already have a very sensitive measuring scale to measure the baking soda with. It measures to the hundreds of a gram/grain. If I use it in the grain mode, I can get extremely close, if not dead on, to 6 grams of baking soda. I also spent a little money on graduated cylinders and beakers to help me measure everything out like the dry ferts and the amounts of water to use in the 4dKH solution and the dry ferts for those that I choose to mix with water.

By the way, just in case you don't know this, 4dKH means water with 4 degrees of carbonate hardness. You will need a carbonate hardness test kit.

[phanmc]

DIY CO2 for that size tank will be a pain in the *** and you will go through a lot of sugar every other week. Invest in a pressurized system, the $150-200 up front is much more worth it than juggling a bunch of bottles every 2-3 weeks and you will get a consistent level that cannot be achieved with DIY.

If you don't have the cash for a pressurized system then stick with a low light setup and appropriate plants until you can afford one.

[Blown 346]

Thanks guys. I will stick with the low light plants for awhile until I can afford a pressurized sytem. Do most of the complete C02 units come with tanks? Where do you fill them.

[phanmc]

No CO2 systems comes with tanks, that is just too much weight to ship. You can buy and fill tanks at a local wielding supply shop, fire extinguisher supply shop, or homebrew supply shop to name a few.

[fabsroman]

I don't think any of the complete systems come with tanks. At least I cannot remember a single one of them coming with tanks when I bought mine 2 years ago. I started out with a 5 lb canister, and when that was starting to run low I bought a 20 lb canister. I'm about to buy another 20 lb canister and rotate between the two of them since the current one has lasted me 15+ months and a 20 lb canister is only a tiny bit more expensive to fill than a 5 lb. If it wouldn't be too awkward to move around and require the use of my truck to get it filled, I would use a 35 lb canister.

[fabsroman]

You can actually buy tanks online. This is where I get mine from, and the shipping isn't too terrible.

http://www.co2-canisters.com/index1.html

[Blown 346]

How long would a 5lb tank last on a 125 gallon with average usage?

[plantbrain]

Stop wasting your time with DIY, for a tank this size, go with a Gas regulator set up. You have a nice large tank, light, plants, the weak spot and the one that will cause algae and lots of time wasted: poor CO2.

Be smart, use the Gas tanks. Worth every penny. I did DIY for a decade, I know.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[phanmc]

How long would a 5lb tank last on a 125 gallon with average usage?

A 5lb tank won't last long, a 2-4 months depending on how much CO2 is used and if you're using a solenoid. Get a 10 or 20lb tank, costs only a little more to purchase and refill but will last much longer.

Depending on the refill station, some places swap empty tanks for pre-filled ones rather than refill the one you give them. Just a warning in case you plan on buying a shiny new tank.

[fabsroman]

I am using a 20 lb on about 125 gallons of water and it has lasted almost 15 months now. I say about because I am using it on a 75 and a 55 that acts as a refugium. Both tanks are pretty heavily planted and I use a CO2 controller and solenoid. I have no idea how much longer the tank will last, but it is getting pretty empty. I would have to guess that a 5 lb canister would last 3 to 4 months on a 125 depending on how heavily planted you have the tank and whether or not you use a solenoid and ph controller.

[laurenrocksth]

You can sometimes buy a complete setup on ebay. They'll usually come with empty tanks that you can in turn fill at a local place. Just a thought :)

[Pickering]

I went to the local beer distributor and rented a CO2 bottle. $ about $35 to $40 deposit. I bought a set of gages from them, $40. I ordered a needle valve from China e-bay $9 For my difuser I use the plastic ladder from the yeast set up which I started with for my 40 gallon tank. It works fine. One bottle should last 6 months to a year depending on his high you are running it. My plants are growing about 5 inches a week. No aer bubblers because they knock the CO2 out of the water. Plants are all they oxy you need. Seldom clean the bottom because the plants are feeding on the nutrients.. Ammonia 0 Nitrites 0 PH needs raised sometimes becuse the plants will run it down.
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[rich311k]

The plants are not running the PH down the CO2 is.

[Blown 346]

Basically with a co2 system, I would use a airstone to release the c02 into the tank? I dont have to mess with anything else, but set the c02 flow rate and leave it more or less? No yeast?

[fabsroman]

The plants don't normally run the PH down. CO2 will lower your ph for the most part, and if the plants are not getting enough CO2 some of them will scavenge calcium bicarbonate out of the water, which will lower your KH and the water's buffer (i.e., less CO2 can be held in the water). Without enough calcium carbonate in the water, you are subject to pretty decent ph swings. When the plants pull the CO2 out of the water during the day, the ph will rise. During the night, it will go back down. I went through this over 2 years ago, and that was why I went to pressurized CO2. The KH of the water was 0 and it comes out of the tap at 2 to 3.

[fabsroman]

You are going to have to do a lot more research on this subject. I spent weeks reading about it before going the pressurized route, and still missed the drop checker matter until a month or so ago. Granted, I was using Red Sea's drop checker with the tank water in it, and couldn't understand why my fish were gasping for air but the solution in the Red Sea drop checker was still blue. So, i chucked the entire thing in the trash. Last month, I learned the reason for that 4dKH water and not aquarium water needs to be used.

I have my pressurized CO2 system hooked up to diffusers in the water to make sure that all the CO2 is dissolved and not wasted. Going the airstone route might work if it makes really small bubbles, but with the diffusers I hardly if ever see any bubbles coming out of them (i.e., the CO2 is completely diffused into the water). Short term, the airstone would be cheaper, but it will cost you more in CO2 in the long run. Kind of the same principle as a large CO2 tank versus a small one. Right now, I am debating the purchase of a 35lb or 50lb tank because I am el cheapo in the long run.

[Blown 346]

I understand, In that case I will go with the diffusers as If im goign to spend money I want the best.

Can anyone share some links that could be helpful on how a C02 pressurized system works, hooks up, the different methods, and or parts to use?
I would like to read and learn about the bubbles per second deal etc.

[fabsroman]

Here is a link to a pretty straight forward Red Sea system:

http://www.redseafish.com/co2_pro.asp

Me, I went with something a little more complicated. I used the Milwaukee regulator/solenoid and the Milwaukee ph controller. Essentially, the ph controller turns the solenoid on/off based upon the ph level of the water. Mine is set at 7.2 right now. If the ph hits 7.3, the controller turns on the regulator and it runs until the ph hits 7.2. You can buy the ph regulator/solenoid and not use the ph controller until later on. You will just have to plug and unplug the solenoid into an outlet. I also went with the Milwaukee solenoid/regulator because it allows me to use the needle valves/bubble counters that I want to use and it allowed me to go from 1 needle valve/bubble counter to 3 needle valves/bubble counters and 3 diffusers. I could actually go to 6 pretty easily with the purchase of a different manifold and additional needle valve/bubble counters, but 3 is good for me for a while.

Here are some links:

http://www.milwaukeetesters.com/
http://www.milwaukeetesters.com/SMS122.html
http://www.milwaukeetesters.com/CO2regulator.html
http://www.co2-canisters.com/index1.html
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-way-Brass-Co2-splitter-for-solenoid-regulator_W0QQitemZ260238319163QQcmdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

I also use the Red Sea 500 diffuser.

[Blown 346]

Thanks.

[fabsroman]

No problem. Just trying to pass on the help I have received from others.

[Squawkbert]

One seldom mentioned bit - if you're going to put it together from parts, consider a 2 stage regulator - they can be had on ebay pretty cheap for gently used ones and even a new one now & then. A 2 stage one will help reduce the "end of tank dump" that happens to an occasional user who lets his CO2 tank get too low before swapping it out.

I've got a Victor 2 stage one waiting to go into service. There are other good brands out there too.

Also - if you get a solenoid via ebay, you want one that can plug into a clock timer (so, 120V, not 12V dc) and that is normally closed.

Needle valves - this part, and the regulator are where you have to spend a little time on research & know what you're getting...

[KarlTh]

When I said "you'd need around 3 gallons", what I meant was "don't be silly, this is way too big for DIY".

[looney417]

tom barr slap


end discussion.

Stop wasting your time with DIY, for a tank this size, go with a Gas regulator set up. You have a nice large tank, light, plants, the weak spot and the one that will cause algae and lots of time wasted: poor CO2.

Be smart, use the Gas tanks. Worth every penny. I did DIY for a decade, I know.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Blown 346]

When I said "you'd need around 3 gallons", what I meant was "don't be silly, this is way too big for DIY".


Thats what I was thinking, I wasnt going to mess with 3 gallons of the DIY.

[plantbrain]

I fully understand get why folks are leary about adding CO2 and spending $ on it, it's something way outside of the norm for most folks,but...............trust us here...................

Once you do and get a gas tank, you will totally see and understand, you will see the speed of gowth etc, this is the single most dramatic thing you can do for a planted tank.

Plants are very active and pearl like mad etc, w.o CO2, they still grow, but not like this.

It's very hard for most people to justify CO2 gas, anyone and everyone that has CO2 gas tanks will tell you the same type of thing.

DIY is fine to see what CO2 can do in smaller tanks, 20 Gal or so etc......

But for folks wanting to finally use CO2 for real, then a gas tank is about the best option.

We all certainly know how you feel about it..........but trust us:)

Regards,
Tom Barr

[Blown 346]

I trust you guys thats why im taking your advice. I first got advice from a Petsmart worker as I wanted to see what fish I was interested in. He says No you never need C02, you wont get algae. Blah Blah... I fully understand how C02 will basically double the plants growth, have a algae free tank, and a healthy environment. I will get C02 once I have the extra money to do so.

[fabsroman]

I don't think I would ever take the advice of a guy at PetSmart. In fact, I think I might do the exact opposite of what they tell me just based upon principle.

[Suzhi]

I bought mine off of ebay a couple of weeks ago. Here is an example of one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Co2-Drop-Checker-for-Aquarium-Tank_W0QQitemZ310051934899QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Just do a search for "drop checker" on ebay and it will give you several options. The tricky part is creating 4dKH water to use in the drop checker. Luckily, I already have a very sensitive measuring scale to measure the baking soda with. It measures to the hundreds of a gram/grain. If I use it in the grain mode, I can get extremely close, if not dead on, to 6 grams of baking soda. I also spent a little money on graduated cylinders and beakers to help me measure everything out like the dry ferts and the amounts of water to use in the 4dKH solution and the dry ferts for those that I choose to mix with water.

By the way, just in case you don't know this, 4dKH means water with 4 degrees of carbonate hardness. You will need a carbonate hardness test kit.

I would not want to be pulled over by a cop with a drop checker in my car.

[Jag1980]

DIY CO2 for that size tank will be a pain in the *** and you will go through a lot of sugar every other week. Invest in a pressurized system, the $150-200 up front is much more worth it than juggling a bunch of bottles every 2-3 weeks and you will get a consistent level that cannot be achieved with DIY.

If you don't have the cash for a pressurized system then stick with a low light setup and appropriate plants until you can afford one.

That's what I was thinking when I was doing mine for a 29 gallon tank with two 2ltr bottles. The price of yeast, 4 cups of sugar, mixing and waiting, going threw the Co2 slow down and not being able to turn it off when you need to.
I got a regulator, solenoid, 5lb aluminum tank, bubble counter and Co2 tubing for about $140 shipped. I wish I would have bought this a long time ago, Yeast generated Co2 causes the same amount of problem as it does good I think.

[Jag1980]

I would not want to be pulled over by a cop with a drop checker in my car.


lol..

[Jag1980]

I don't think I would ever take the advice of a guy at PetSmart. In fact, I think I might do the exact opposite of what they tell me just based upon principle.

I went to Petsmart a long time ago looking for Co2 stuff and they had know idea what I was talking about. They asked me if it was for fish.. I said plants and they said oh.. and looked at each other like they where wondering what I was talking about... You should know about more things then just using knowing how to scoop fish with a net when working at a pet store, don't jobs have certain requirements anymore?
I wouldn't get hired at a Autozone if I didn't know what a battery was for... No offense to anyone who doesn't ;)

[fabsroman]

Heck, I have been putting the potassium sulfate powder in vials so I can dose them straight into my tanks, which happen to be at my parents, and I put them in the trunk for that very reason. I definitely don't want an LEO to pull me over, look in the back seat, and see a bunch of vials with white powder in them. At least he would have to ask me to search the trunk, to which I would answer NO. Knock on wood, I haven't been pulled over in 9 years.

[taylor/mac]

Does anyone have comments on the complete co2 systems that aquariumplants.com or greenleaf aquariums.com offer

[fabsroman]

The system from aquariumplants.com seems expensive since it doesn't come with a CO2 tank, and I don't really like the regulator on the greenleafaquariums.com system, but I have never actually used it. I have the Milwaukee regulator/solenoid. Essentially, I think both "complete" systems cost just as much as putting together your own system. In hindsight, I would have started out with a 20 pound tank in lieu of the 5 pound tank I bought, and am actually debating between a 35 and 50 pound tank at this point.

At the end of the day, I think both systems will work just fine.