Help me rebuild my tanks...

[Corax]

Howdy folks, it's been a long time since I hit this forum, but I need a few opinions here...

Currently I have the following:

29g
3.5" Maroon Clown
1" Yellow Tail Damsel
Coral Banded Shrimp
Chocolate Chip Starfish
bout 30lbs of Liverock
Hardware:
Emperor 400, empty just for massive circulation
NO lighting
small powerhead for cross current

55g
Pair (well, 2 separate individuals actually) Tomato Clowns
3" Coral Beauty Angel
1" Green Chromis (the lone survivor of that school.. Never again!)
4" Foxface Lo
3" Mandarin fish
Bubbletip Anemone
bout 80-100lbs of liverock
Hardware:
3 powerheads, lots of movement going on
Remora Protien Skimmer
AC200, mostly to hold my phosguard
Powerquad lighting, 2 -95w bulbs


Ok, here is my dilemma... My 55g is infested with bryopsis. I've fought this crap for a year and I'm finally over it. I've learned that bryopsis takes about a month of darkness to melt away, but I can't do that because of my anemone. So, here is what I plan to do:

29g
Tomato Clowns
Yellow Tail Damsel
Bubbletip anemone
Mandarin
Coral Banded Shrimp
Chocolate Chip Starfish
Hardware:
I'll be moving one of my Powerquad bulbs into a new hood for the 29g. That puts 95w over 29g, which should be sufficient. I feed my anemone directly, so light isn't quite as important as it normally would be.

55g
Maroon Clown
Coral Beauty Angel
Foxface Lo
Green Chromis - or not, see below...
Hardware:
The 55g will then have NO lighting, as the anemone will be in the other tank. I will then shut the lights off except for about 2 hours per day for feeding and viewing purposes. This should be sufficient to kill off the evil bryopsis.


My only concern is that the 29g is getting a bit cramped. I COULD leave the Mandarin and Chromis in the 55g, but I'd like to leave open the possibility of maybe removing the Foxface and adding an Antenatta/Radiatta Lion once I get this algae under control... I'm open to ideas, including find new homes for some fish if I have to...

[reefpicker]

Hi,

I understand from your posting that you are not a novice, so I do not know if this observation is too simplistic for you, but why do you want to attack the algae problem by starving the algae of light?

Instead, you could attempt to find the cause of the problem. Perhaps you are underskimming, you have a problem with your tapwater, you feed too much food for your fish, etc. Probably you have already tried to address the problem this way, but I am just wondering...

BTW Mandarin fish are beautiful. How long have you had yours?

[Corax]

The Remora is one of the best skimmers on the market, it is rated for a 75 gallon and it only needs emptying about every 3 weeks. Proteins aren't the problem... Alk is stable and has been for months, Calc is where it should be, phosphates are always nil. I use RO water, religiously. The one element the algae has plenty of is light. I can take one of my rocks, fill a 10gallon tank up with the tank water, give it no light and in 32 days, yes I've kept track, all signs of the bryopsis are gone. Put it back in the tank, it comes right back.

Time for drastic measures =)

The mandarin is indeed beautiful, mine has been thriving for about 2 years now.

[reefpicker]

I am not sure if I had this same kind of problem... I cant remember what species was of algae that I had growing when I had my tank with the clowns and an angelfish only.... I think it was this same algae....

I think I cleaned the tank, change the lights (light quality b/c of old age is often another problem), cleaned some of the rockwork, added a yellow tang... algae gone.

Have you thought about this also? have you tried to add a tang?

One of this days I have to try my hand at this mandarins... what do you feed yours? what temp do you keep it at? My LFS said that they needed relatively temperate waters....

[Corax]

Bryopsis is a very strange algae. It is impossible to remove mechanically, as it can completely reproduce itself from a single cell. It is also poisonous to most fish with the Foxface Lo being the exception.

I had a Yellow Tang for a while, but his waste made matters even worse in the tank.

My mandarin is thriving because of the fact that the liverock is both plentiful and very old. It came out of a very well established tank and the pod population is tremendous. It never takes frozen or flakes, but it hunts pods constantly. My tank stays at about 82 degrees.

The lighting usta be metal halide, but when I decided that the only coral/invert I really cared for was a BTA, I switched over to PC lighting. It has worked out well. That was about a year ago, and the bulbs are good for 18 months on these. The bryopsis was thriving long before I changed lighting.

I've been thinking and I believe the only real change I need to make is swapping the clowns, moving the BTA and building that hood. Adding a lion would be nice, but not at the expense of my smaller fish.

[frazin78]

An idea would be to try and locate that slug that eats this stuff. This may help in your battle when you decide to turn the lights off. If the infestation is that bad... then try and remove as much as you can by hand... then introdcue this slug. I am by no means a specialist in aquariums but I read a few articles on the net about this algea and this slug might be your way out.

Jc

[liquafaction]

when you deprive bryopsis of light, does it actually kill it, or go dormant. I noticed you said when you put your rock back in the tank, then it grows back. Is this because your rock was reintroduced into a tank with bryopsis, or because the bryopsis is coming out of hybernation? I do not know a lot about marine algae, but a lot of the fungus, and molds that grow in yours and my invironment just goes dormant untill their environmental condtions improve.

[Corax]

The slug you mention is a paticular species of nudibranch that is both very expensive and very delicate. The things are upwards of $60 each and the slightest damage to them kills them.

The other question in regards to dormancy is a simple one. In a word, no. I've taken bryopsis covered rocks from the 55g, put them in my 10g quarantine tank, let the bryopsis melt, then moved them to the 29g with no further bryopsis showing up. Nice thought though, I considered that at first as well when I was considering adding rock to my 29g. I didn't want to spread the infestation. I took a chance and it paid off.

[reefpicker]

Hi,

The only thing I would be concerned is that when this algae die off, they might release a lot of nutrients. I guess that the way around that would be lots of water changes.

...That is the problem with the mandarins... They just need live food to really thrive and be happy.

[mogurnda]

Hi Corax,
The saga continues, I see. It sounds like a decent plan, but a couple of things concern me a little. First, it looks like you're packing a lot of fish into the 29. Second, I have seen posts about BTAs eating mandarins, and might worry that being in a smaller tank may increase the possibility of this happening.

Other that that I have nothing to offer. I have always had a few threads of bryopsis in the 20, with plenty of NO3 and PO4, but have never had an outbreak. I have always attributed it to having an embarrassingly large population of grazers, especially hermits and astrea snails, but maybe it's just luck.

Good luck.

[Corax]

Mog, see one of my latest posts in which I said the only real change was going to be the clowns and the BTA. I'm going to put the Tomato clowns and BTA in the 29, and move the Maroon to the 55. I might move the Yellowtail over to the 55, but I'm not sure yet. The overcrowding was too big a concern for me to pack them into the 29 like that.

So, it would be

29g
Tomato Clowns
Bubbletip anemone
Coral Banded Shrimp
Yellow Tail Damsel - maybe

55g
Maroon Clown
Foxface Lo - might find a new home for this guy.
Coral Beauty Angel
Mandarin
Yellow Tail Damsel - maybe
Green Chromis
Chocolate Chip Starfish

[mogurnda]

Oops. That 29 sounds really nice now that I know what I'm talking about.

[OrionGirl]

Should be fine. And, adding a dwarf lion won't endanger the mandarin--those bright colors let predators know they don't taste good. We kept out mandarin in with a volitan for about a year (recently moved the mandarin to the reef tank), and had no problems. The lion would watch the mandarin, but never made an attempt to eat it. Those mandarins are little bullies--ours will back the trigger fish down from food--we moved the mandarin because we were worried the trigger would soon realize it could beat up the mandarin.

The chromis and the damsel may have problems--depends on the fish. Our blue damsel has always been a model denizen, but I've seen them be terrors.

[Corax]

Ya know, I totally spaced the fact that Mandarins are poisonous and that the Lion would know this. Ok, the Lion might not be out of the question them. I'd flirted with the idea, but risking the life of my happy and healthy mandarin for a Lion that may or may not survive shipping was not something I was willing to do. Whould you put a Radiatta or an Antenatta in a 55g Onion? My buddy had a Radiatta in one for a long time and he had no problems, I'm just curious if he was an anomoly. The Dwarf Zebra Lion is nice, but not my first choice.

On the Damsels, my Yellowtail is totally docile with the Maroon Clown. They swim near each other with no aggressin from either side. Might change with the Tomato Clowns, but I doubt it. The Green Chromis is also very docile, usually hiding in the rockwork. Mixing them though, might be a bit different. Territorial little punks!

[OrionGirl]

I think that as long as you make sure there is an overhang or cave the lion can claim, either should be fine. All my experience with lions indicates they are peaceful, laid back fish--though they can pout with the best. The volitan gets cranky and will threaten us if we mess around in 'his' part of the tank, but is otherwise very mellow. I like the Antenatta better--think they look more like the volitan.

The chromis would be the only one I'd worry about--he may see the damsel as an invader--so I would make sure to re-arrange the tank quite a bit before, to give everyone an equal chance at claiming turf.

[Corax]

Well, I think if that Lion hits the 55, the chromis is going to either be in a new home or be a snack. Same goes for the Yellowtail. I'm defintely going to decide on the Lion before I move the Yellowtail. I've got no desire to try catching that sucker once he gets loose in my rockwork. Same goes for the Chromis, but he is already in there... <sigh> What do you think of cohabitation, in a 55, of an Antenatta and my Foxface? I'm thinking it's going to be one or the other, not both.

[Corax]

Btw, here is an Antenatta lion, for anyone that hasn't seen these. They are, IMHO, the nicest of all the Lion fish...

http://digilander.libero.it/paulreds/image/big/sub/lion6.jpg

They only get about 6-7" long and can be kept in a 55g.

[OrionGirl]

I don't think there should be a problem with the foxface and the lion. They don't have the same food needs, which is the most common conflict between fish, and they don't look similar, which is the second most common cause. Rabbit fish and lions are listed as compatible on the charts I've seen.

[Corax]

I was asking mostly about tank space. The Foexy is a veg-head for the most part, but I'd call it more of a goat. It will eat, or at least try to eat, just about anything.. I saw the thing chewing on a powerhead cord once! Freak of a fish... Ok, so does anyone see any problems with how this is working out? Any input, positive or negative, is greatly apreciated..

[tricksterpup]

Originally posted by Corax
Ok, so does anyone see any problems with how this is working out? Any input, positive or negative, is greatly apreciated..

Yes, a major one, I think you should move everything at my place. ;)
Hey, I got a spare 75 that is sitting dry and needs to be setup. Thinking about the same type of set up you have for the 55. But it all sounds good, good luck with the Alage problem. I know what its like to have a reef tank become a swamp due to an alage issue. Reason why I have an empty 75 right now, but since I have moved, the girlfriend is talking me into a reef tank again for the bedroom. I have all the hardware, for the tank except for a stand. :(

jim