Cycle Question

[Sregnar35]

Can I successfully cycle my 75g with a 4" dsb, 40 to 50 lbs of base rock and 15 lbs of LR? Or should I also add a coctail shrimp to help jump my ammonia?

[OrionGirl]

The more ammonia you start with, the larger the bacteria bed will be. You can always start with just the live rock, and see how big the spike is from it. If your spike is less than 2ppm, add the shrimp. If it spikes to 5+, you are getting enough without adding the shrimp.

[Sregnar35]

Let's say i do add the shrimp, will the ammonia spike from the shrimp be harmful to the LR, considering the LR is already cycled from a local reefer who's selling it to me for $35.

[OrionGirl]

Yes and no. Won't hurt the rock or the bacteria. But, it can be harmful to some critters that may be on the rock. I though you were using uncycled rock--cycled rock won't really help you establish bacteria beds on other rock--it should already have some bacteria. It shouldn't be put into a cycling tank unless you're going to do water changes to keep the ammonia levels low (which seems counter productive to building a large bed, but is not).

[mogurnda]

Seems to me, if you are getting good live rock, you'll be jumpstarting the whole process. I'd approach it like this:
1. Put live rock in tank, let it sit a few days and test for ammonia to see if there's die off. No die off, go to step 2. If you see ammonia, wait until you don't, then go to step 2.
2. Add livestock gradually. A small collection of hermits, to start perhaps. Keep adding slowly, allowing the germs to catch up with the livestock.
Again, that's how I would do it.

[Sregnar35]

Well here's my dilemma, I have to get the rock in the next week because the girl selling it won't hold it for 6 weeks. What should I do, skip the rock, cycle with the shrimp, and hope to find another good deal after my cycle? Or put the rock in, add the shrimp, and hope some of the life stays on the living side?

[Sregnar35]

Mogurnda, doing it the way you said, I would basically be skipping the cycling process and hoping that my 15# of LR seed my dsb and base rock, right?

[reefpicker]

I agree with mogurnda 100%. Skip the shrimp thing. Just add animals carefully. I have NEVER lost a fish to a cycling spike , because I am careful to add hardy species first and slowly... Starting slowly is very important if you are going to "skip" the cycling. The other key factor, I believe, is not to overfeed.

That is just IME.

[mogurnda]

Here's the way I look at it:
Base rock and sand: no ammonia production, no problem.
Add cured live rock: Suddenly you have a biological filter (assuming you didn't kill it), although it is on a small scale. As you slowly increase your biological load, the bacteria will colonize the rock and sand.
If you wanted to go faster, then adding ammonia or a dead shrimp will get you there. It just seems like you could just take advantage of the rock as it is.
Just don't start with anything expensive and/or delicate.

[Sregnar35]

Makes sense to me too, I'll have to try that. I want to minimize die off on my cured LR since i'll only be starting with 15#. I guess if I have problems after adding hermits or snails i'l know why.

[Guy W]

15 pounds of live rock isn't much. I doubt it will hold even near enough bacteria to have to skip the cycle process for a 75 gallon tank, unless you plan on stocking the tank like it was a 10 gallon tank (i.e. 1 fish, 2 snails, and a partridge in a pear tree).

I would just put the 15# of rock in and cycle anyway. The bacteria on the rock will spread quickly and basicly it should atleast shorten your cycle to less than a month.

Guy

[Sregnar35]

That's kinda what I though Guy, but will I be destroying all the goodies on the rock? I know the bacteria and algae will make it, but what about pods and other things?

[Guy W]

i would recommend just getting another 15 pounds of rock when the cycle is over if thats what your worried about, losing the life. But I think a lot of stuff will live, not everything, but some.

Or get a live sand activator kit from ipsf.com after cycle.

Guy

[Sregnar35]

That's a good idea, i'd like to keep a mandarinfish some day and i know i'll need pods for them to feed on.

[mogurnda]

unless you plan on stocking the tank like it was a 10 gallon tank That was kind of the idea. Stock lightly, ramp up slowly. Just an idea. I'd skip the partridge, though.

Here's another view (more in line with OrionGirl and Guy). Live rock isn't so precious that it's worth rushing anything. Maybe forget the live rock for the moment, or put it in, then cycle the tank. If you are worried about killing the stuff on it, then wait until the tank is cycled.

[Sregnar35]

The only problem I have is that the offer I have for LR is NOW and it's a good deal. So really for $35 if I get any benefit at all from it, it was worth the money. I see what you are saying Mogurnda, basically keep my bioload just below what my rock can handle, and as the bacteria multiplies and seeds my dsb and base rock, I can upgrade my bioload, but I have to decide if, like you said, the rock is worth all the fuss. It's only 15# and it's only $35, so should I just add it and cycle with the shrimp, thereby guaranteeing a seeded dsb, and hope that my LR survives enough to seed my base rock. If it doesn't, buy an activator, or try to find another deal on LR.

[mogurnda]

Most of my hasty decisions have led to a lot of stress. If you are in doubt, I would keep my eyes peeled for another deal. I agree that $35/15 lbs is a good deal, but you have to balance that against the worry and hassle. JMO.

[Sregnar35]

You're right, and I guess it's not so much that I'm worried, I just really wanted to hear from people who had done this in the past and find out what my best bet it. I didn't know if anything on cured LR could survive a coctail shrimp cycle, so I guess I'll buy it and hope some of the coralline algae, pods, and other life on the rock survives and will eventually seed my base rock, time will tell...


Thanks for all the help by the way, I hope to get my tank going this week, it's been a 3 month planning, waiting, and buying process that has felt like 3 years!!! I hope to put some pics up when I set up. I know I'll have tons of questions!!