PDA

View Full Version : Still cloudy after changing 100% in a day



Karlsbad
11-09-2003, 5:51 PM
Hi,

My tank just finished its fishy cycle maybe a week and a half ago. During the cycle I was doing daily water changes for probably about 6 weeks. I was also vaccuuming up only the visible food and waste on the gravel during that time because I thought doing so would help with the cycle.

I'll post the tank info and test results at the end of this message.

We actually restarted the cycle once because of using Maracyn, during that first cycle we had a hair algae problem that I took care of just by cleaning the glass and decorations and vaccuming most of what came off out of the gravel and netting it out of the water, it was 100% gone. I didn't know that I shouldn't expose my tank to sunlight :rolleyes: , found out the hard way.

So anyway I did a 35% water change yesterday and vacuumed the gravel thoroughly and the water looked clear after the change. I think the tank was exposed to more than usual indirect sunlight yesterday before the water change also. The day before yesterday the tank got like 2 or 3 degrees colder because it got cold overnight and I didn't have the heat on in the house, it went from 79 to 76, I turned the heat in the house on and the tank heater up a tad and its all cool, it was maybe like 10 hours moving down to 76 and back to 79.

At the same time I did the first water change yesterday before the cloudiness appeared I changed the filter cartridge in the Penguin 125, and wiped out the housing and brushed out the intake tube and impeller because I actually changed the cartridge a week and half ago because it needed it ie water was coming out the intake ramp and it didn't go away when I rinsed the cartridge(hmm right when the cycle completed, the bio filter is on the bio wheel though so it shouldnt be a problem changing the cartridge), and when I put in the first new cartridge a week and a half ago a little water was still coming out the intake ramp (less than before changing the cartridge)which it had never done before needing changing, calling marineland they said to clean the impeller and it was breaking in and no problem, lol though the manual says to change the filter if ANY water comes out the intake ramp and I told them that line from the manual and they still said its normal, so I can live with it its only a very small amount.

So this morning when I got up the water looked cloudy and I did a 50% change and it didn't look any better so I did another 50% change like 4 hours later and it still looks the same. What it looks like is basically like there's a lot of air bubbles(they're clear) in the water all throughout the tank(not just by the filter), a lot of it seems to be moving to the surface, but a lot of it seems suspended just floating around in the water. The glass is clean. There's maybe the slightest green tint to the water when you look at it in the dark, but it looks clear colored and cloudy when you look at it in light. There is no visible debris I could net out or anything like that.

I was hoping it was just debris from cleaning the gravel and it would settle, but it doesn't seem likely because it was clear after the water change and I'd expect it to be worse then if it was stuff I stirred up.

The fish seem ok, though the oscar is acting a bit irritable, which he does from time to time, though that may be a sign he's starting to feel uncomfortable also.

Is this another bacteria bloom or free floating algae or something else entirely? It really doesn't seem like debris like I said. I'm starving it for light and I guess I'll do another change in 12-24 hours if it doesn't dissipate. Boy it was so nice not doing water changes everyday after 6 weeks of daily. Should I clean the glass anyway(I don't want to make it worse, but it it needs that....)? Should I do something else?

20 High
penguin 125
200 w. heater
1 - 5" oscar
1 - 5" striped raphael catfish
no plants

0 ammonia
0 nitrites
10 ppm Nitrate
100 ppm Total Hardness
120 ppm Alkalinity
8.2 PH

travelinman1969
11-09-2003, 8:04 PM
The one thing that concerns me is the ph and alkalinity levels. The osacr likes acidic and low ph water. I have my ph at 6.8 and alkalinity at about 80. The direct sunlight ain't helping. Keeping it shaded will help. I'm surprised the nitrate isn't up higher. What are you doing on the water changes, tap water, ro system, etc.? Your water may be getting rid of beneficial bacteria. I can't even use the water here. Gotta use bottled water from Wally world.

Karlsbad
11-09-2003, 9:36 PM
I use tap water with Aqua Plus tap water treatment and stress coating.

What I'm really looking for is help on the cloudiness though. It sounds like you're saying you think this is some sort of algae?

travelinman1969
11-09-2003, 11:07 PM
Do you have test strips? Where do you live? Water issues my be your biggest problem. Not algea. You seem to have water hardness issues.

Karlsbad
11-10-2003, 12:14 AM
This is brand new and I've been using the exact same water all along without this problem, so I don't think its the water quality, which looks clear coming out of the tap and sitting in the big mixing bowls I use to treat it before I put it in the tank.

Dragon_Lord_Tia
11-10-2003, 12:34 AM
thats pretty bloody stupid doing a 100% water change in a day!!!!

but could be the bacteria in the water just leave it for a few days and see but if i doesnt clear but and gets a greeny milky colour id say the phosphates are threw the roof and causing the algea to thrive and grow rapidaly

hineigger
11-10-2003, 1:33 AM
bacteria bloom

Dragon_Lord_Tia
11-10-2003, 2:21 AM
just like what i said

Karlsbad
11-10-2003, 5:08 AM
Originally posted by Dragon_Lord_Tia
thats pretty bloody stupid doing a 100% water change in a day!!!!

but could be the bacteria in the water just leave it for a few days and see but if i doesnt clear but and gets a greeny milky colour id say the phosphates are threw the roof and causing the algea to thrive and grow rapidaly

Thanks for your help but wtf if the water is threatening my fish im gonna bloody change it.

jdheff1982
11-10-2003, 5:36 AM
Hey Karl, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your tank is way too small for the fish you are keeping. An oscar needs at least a 55g. Your 20g is suitable for small cichlids like kribensis and such. From what I have been told, most fish that is kept in a less than suitable size tank will have its life and size stunted. I have a friend that I told this to repeatedly and he never listened. Result, a 5 inch oscar that lived only a couple years. Yours may do the same. I am just saying this as a precationary measure. Oscars are great fish, but they are even better when kept in a proper sized tank.

As far as the water quality, I would leave your water alone for a few days. The milky color you may see is the bacteria bloom. This lets you know that your tank is in the cycling process. I would highly advise that you never do a 100% water change in one day again!! This would lead to having to recycle your tank all over again. the impression I am getting is that you used the oscar and the catfish to cycle the tank with. Your best bet is to do a fishless cycle w/ pure, bottled ammonia. Some others here know the proper procedure on doing this. You might ask them hw to do this. Good luck and I hope my info got the brain workin'! :cool:

Ciao

DMS
11-10-2003, 9:02 AM
The 100% water change probably wasn't a good idea, I would definitely leave it alone for several days at least, probably a bacterial bloom like they said. BTW, while I agree that a 25 is too small for an Oscar & I hope that you're planning to get at least a 55 gal very soon (75 would be better), I wouldn't worry about the hardness & pH. I have a full grown, healthy Oscar & Pleco that were kept in water that had a pH of 8.4 & was like liquid rock for the first three years I had them (now I am in another state & pH & hardness are a little lower). But, they were in a 120 gal. JMO, Oscars & catfish are pretty tough. Good Luck :)

125gJoe
11-10-2003, 9:39 AM
Since I've been here, off and on, I hear of 100% water changes and I wonder why so much water is being changed out..?
Wouldn't this cause a 'new cycle' for the tank?? No matter that there's still bacteria in the substrate, and in the filter(s), it just seems wrong, and a 'new cycle' will happen.

I may have overlooked something on the 100% change though..
Any comments?

OrionGirl
11-10-2003, 11:21 AM
From the mod in me: Let's not call actions stupid. Inadvisable, poor choice, etc. Stupid is not constructive.

For the problem:

Cloudy water is seldom the result of nitrifying bacteria. These bacteria like to be tied down, and don't go floating around. There are many bacteria in our tanks, though, and many of these will thrive in the water column. Most are short lived, thriving on a specific food source and dying off as that food source gets consumed. A 100% water change will sometimes fix the problem, depending on a) what the food source is and b) the manner of the change. Removing in-tank features (decorations, substrate) is bad, and can disturb the beneficial bacteria. Stirring up the substrate can release additional food for the non-notrifying bacteria--making the bloom coninute or worsen. Instead of doing a complete water change, doing 3 separate changes of 50% of the water is more effective, and keeps the fish less stressed.

And, please take heed on the advice to find a larger home for that oscar. In maybe 6 months, that fish will be stunted in a 20--I prefer to see them in at least a 75.

Karlsbad
11-10-2003, 11:24 AM
I just moved a 90 into my 3rd floor apartment I'll be setting up over the next couple of weeks :D No elevator here.:(

It was 2 - 50% changes.

The biofilter is in the biowheel filter isn't it? None of the test results have changed since the first change.

125gJoe
11-10-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Karlsbad
...It was 2 - 50% changes...... It really does
'throw me off' when I hear the 100% water change... :eek:

Karlsbad
11-10-2003, 12:59 PM
Can we get off the water change and onto the clouding? Geez.

Karlsbad
11-10-2003, 1:12 PM
Keep it constructive from your end as well. OG

rainbowprizimz
11-10-2003, 6:29 PM
I recently had to do a 100% water change, unfortunatly the gravel I choose to use the first time was blue colored. The epoxy coating was diminished by the bacteria I used during cycling, and a couple of weeks after adding the fish my water became cloudy, murky almost. I noticed a lot of blue specks floating about in my water, which indicated to me that the gravel was the culprit. So I purchased natural gravel, with epoxy coating. I withdrew my fish from the tank, 7 adults and 8 fry, emptied the tank and scooped out the blue gravel added the new gravel, and a new filter cartridge, refilled the tank using AquaSafe. I re-acclimated all of the fish for about 20 minutes each. All of the fish survived, even the newborn fry, probably due the the bio-wheel.

Just wanted to share that story, as it shows that sometimes 100% water changes can be necessary, for the health of your fish, and don't always turn out bad.

SnakeIce
11-11-2003, 3:44 PM
***worning*** Wife posting on husbands account LOL we will see when he notices <g>

I have had similar problems with my little 1o gal tank. I have had to deal with the cloudy water (I found that a 50% change every day for about 3-4 days took care of most of it time took care of the rest. It was about a week total)
Lets just say that in the last year and a half I have had to tear the whole tank down keeping as much of the water as I can (about 50%) and clean, and to change the gravel once. not once, not twice but 5 times! ( I have also gone through about 3 different tanks full of fish, we have water problems here) but I love my little tank (want a bigger one <g>) and so I try my best to do every thing I can even if I find out later that what I did was not what I should have done.

~Wifey

125gJoe
11-11-2003, 4:16 PM
As most all "should realize",,
water changes if general have a positive effect with cloudy water situations.. Thanks.. :)

(I'm so glad the nice folks here guided me on getting the Vortex XL, and sharing knowledge on UV Sterilizers!! :) - don't think those products will go over well on this "topic" though..) JMO

Karlsbad
11-11-2003, 6:23 PM
Originally posted by 80gJoe
As most all "should realize",,
water changes if general have a positive effect with cloudy water situations.. Thanks.. :)

(I'm so glad the nice folks here guided me on getting the Vortex XL, and sharing knowledge on UV Sterilizers!! :) - don't think those products will go over well on this "topic" though..) JMO

What's up with UV sterilizers? Like what are they? How much?

damion
11-12-2003, 5:45 PM
My tank just cleared! Had Bacterial Bloom for 2 months. Did all the water changes and chemical additives and it didn't do a thing.
I cut down on feedings and it worked.