aquatic plant newbie questions, especially lighting

[Dahlia]

I'm a reasonably experienced aquarist and an extremely experienced terrestrial gardener (as well as a state certified master gardener). So, it is probably shameful that I am completely intimidated by the thought of beginning my first planted tank. Part of the problem is I have a tight budget, and I worry I'll need to buy lots of special equipment, but my main anxiety seems to be about lighting (I didn't learn much about lighting as a gardener since the sun pretty much handles that for me.) :)

So, here are my current tanks that I am interested in switching to live plants (though I will only be doing one at a time).

-90 gallon standard: 48" long, ballast currently has 2 40 watt tubes. 21" from top to the substrate. Will contain goldfish.

-30 gallon hex: 15" ballast and weird tank shape for adding more ballasts, small 14 watt tube. 20" from top to substrate. Will contain a breeding angelfish pair. Is it possible to raise some plants up near the light with some tank structuring?

-20 gallon standard: 24" ballast that has a 15 watt bulb but either needs a new glass panel (I broke it) or a completely new hood. 14" from top to substrate. Guppies (feeders) and a water beetle.

I am also getting two 55 gallons (48" tanks) for Christmas that I would like to plant in. These will contain breeding convicts and breeding severum respectively.

I understock all my tanks.

My main question is what would I need to do in order to provide decent lighting on the above tanks in order to plant them (is it even possible on a hex?). Is the 90 too deep? What kind of bulbs do you recommend most and how much do those generally cost?

Do I need a CO2 injector? If I do this I'll probably buy one rather than make my own, what brand should I look at?

Are the proposed fish going to be compatible with plants, are any of those fish only compatible with certain plants?

Any other new to planted tanks advice is appreciated, though I am reading as much as I can on it. If you know of any great website info I should check out...

Thanks!

[750t]

www.ahsupply.com sells retrofit kits for your current strip lights and here if you go back and read different posts on lighting and substrates, there is alot of info here. good luck Tim

[TwoTankAmin]

There are different plants that will do well in low, moderate and jigh light levels. If you stay with plants that do fine in lower light levels, yhen you need less light and will spend less money for them. Minimal additional stuff is needed for low light plants while co2 addition and other things are required for High light levels.

The best suggestion I have for you is go here and then follow the links to great information on all aspects of planted tanks- http://www.brainyday.com/jared/aquarium/info.htm

[mtdewlover]

My understanding of all of this is. You need at least 3 watts per gallon to have sufficient light for plants. AH supply is pretty "cheap" I found none of this plant stuff is cheap. I too am setting up a 55 gallon planted tank. With cichlids, and that's a challange b/c they did and eat the plants. None the less a good challange. Anywho. Back to your story. We got the lights, a good flourite substrate is recomended. Also a co2 system will help your plants. There is do it yourself co2 which i've heard horror stories and good stories. Or you can just buy a pressurized system which I'm going to do. http://www.aquatic-store.com/ is a good place for co2. Also there is a sticky on the top of this page about what fertilizers etc your plants will need. I think that's about it. Good luck! ;) Oh and just research different plants to see what they need. Some don't need that much light if you want to go to a low lighted tank.

[Captain Hook]

My suggestion would be to try and plant the 20 gallon and see how you find it. The goldfish in the 90 will probably make it tough to keep plants down. You may have some problems with cichlids and plants too. As for the hex, you are obviously aware that is deep and will need good lighting so that could be tough too.

[superjohnny]

Just a thought... if you ever want to get into aquascaping you'll kick yourself for buying those 55g tanks. They're only 12" wide which makes creating a scene with some depth quite difficult. It's my only complaint about my tank which is 36"Lx12"Wx24"H.

IMO you need around 18" to get anything going front-to-back.

And you don't "...need at least 3 watts per gallon to have sufficient light for plants. " That's bogus. Some low light plants can survive in <1wpg. How much light really depends on what kind of plants you want to keep and what kind of growth you want.

[Aries]

I would recommend starting off small - for cost reasons to see what you may need on the large scale (ie the 90G).

Also, if your tanks are near each other (and you dont mind running CO2 tubing), you can have say one (1) 15lb CO2 tank supply all you CO2 - if you get the correct equipment. That is if you decide to go with pressurized CO2. In general experience, the larger the tank (55+), it gets easier for some (not all - especially those on a budget :) ) to just use pressurized CO2 injection.

Typically anything above 2.0 Watts Per Gallon (WPG) will suffice for many plants (not all). If you want more color (say red) I believe a higher wattage (WPG) light is needed. However, even for some plants, 1.0WPG or less will work!

Also, the taller the tank (ie the HEX) will need more lighting due to the tallness -which will invalidate the general calculations of WPG - I have no experience with these but have hear you must bump up the previous 2.0 WPG to about 2.5 to 3.0 WPG. But as I said, I have no experience with these. Take that advice at your own risk :D

In general Cichlids d0 not deal well with plants (I dont know about goldfish - never had them). This is a rule - not a law. I have cichlids (3 Zebra 3 Yellow Labs) doing GREAT in a 30G planted tank (now I have 14 yellow lab fry to find a place for :) - looks like my 75G will appear at my place sooner than later).

The 90G is not too deep if you get the proper lighting - which is A LOT (about 180W worth for 2.0 WPG).

There is a Nutrafin Commercial DIY CO2 System. My girlfriend is looking into this as well - are there any thoughts on these systems? (~$25.00 online)

I would plant the 20G first. Do everthing slowly and systematically. If you add CO2, add it SLOWLY since these are established tanks. Dont want to harm those fishies :p

I also agree with Superjohnny - I have a 29G planted tank with .52 WPG and it is doing well. In fact, I do nothing and the tank takes care of its self. So if you set up the 20G, you can see what you may need / not need for the other tanks - which will save you $ in the long run.

Just 2 rubles

If you have more ?'s just ask. There are many more people that know more than I do!

[Dahlia]

It occurred to me later that the snails I breed alongside my guppies in my 20 gallon (preparing for some clown loaches I plan to have next spring) probably will not be suited to a planted tank, so I guess I shouldn't begin with my 20. They are mostly physa (pond) snails, which I hear are plant lawnmowers. I also have MTS and a single ramshorn (I know "single" rarely precedes the word "ramshorn" but it is true!). Are MTS okay with all or just some plants?

Also, since I'm about to switch all my fish from my 90 into another tank in preparation for goldfish, isn't this the best time for me to add the substrate needed for a planted tank and get the CO2 running smoothly with my pH? Does anyone keep plants with goldfish successfully or know of anyone who does? Are certain species better than others for them?

If I buy an additional ballast that holds 2 bulbs, could I get a decent quantity of light with the 4 bulbs across the top?

[superjohnny]

Clown loaches are great (if not a bit shy) but will outgrow a 20g tank. You might look into dwarf loaches instead. They are about 1-1.5" in length and are just as hungry for snails. I have two in my 6g and they fixed the snail problem in just a few days. You have to remove the large snails manually, but they're the easy ones to get anyway.

Check out www.loaches.com for lots of info on loaches

[TKOS]

Goldfish are plant lawnmowers. The best plant option for them is plastic or silk.

My friend keep cichlids and I alway give him lots of plants. The convict tank, though, is always bare. His munch them like crazy, while the africans don't touch them.

The lower the wattage the smaller the selection of plants you can successfuly raise. You may be able to keep them alive but they will probably not grow and you may just end up with alage problems. If you can get the light to at least 2 watts per gallon a whole new realm of possibilities will open up.

At the very least Java Fern and Java Moss will be your best friends right now. Little care is needed and low light is fine. There are also floating plants like hornwort, water sprite and some lilies that will probably do fine as they will be right next to the lights.

CO2 will only work if you use the right kind of filter. You really can't use HOB or anything that creates a bubble as this disturbes the waters surface and will end up releasing the excess CO2 in order to create equilibrium with the atmosphere above the water.

And snails aren't that bad. MTS are the perfect snail as they burrow into the gravel or substrate and airate the roots. The pond snails will eat the plants a bit but in my tank they never do it faster than the new growth so things are fine.

[as40]

*Chuckle*

I had convicts once upon a time (for 6 years!!!). Had terrible luck even keeping fake plants in one piece once those suckers got full grown. Would never keep them again, though they were a fun experience to go through once. What I had to do with my fake plants was anchor them down with rocks and replace them as they got shredded. Don't know about live plants and them, because never did it, but I wish the best of luck to you!

[Dahlia]

Oops, I didn't mean to imply I planned to put clown loaches in a 20 gallon. I'm breeding the snails in the 20 gallon to dump into the 120 gallon I plan to get in the spring for the clown loaches.

The lady at the LFS I trust most (frequently has great advice but not always) said if I put juvenile goldfish into a tank that has mostly established amazon swords and java moss that I have a decent chance at having luck with them. She says that it varies from fish to fish though. I also saw this website on goldfish. (http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/Plants.html) Any opinions?

I like my convict cichlids, but I'm considering trading them in for some other small cichlid (apistogrammas maybe?) that tends to do okay in a planted tank. The convicts so bratty I can't keep anything with them except for nocturnal fish I rarely see, so I might enjoy some different fish anyway. If I keep the convicts, will they even eat java moss?

Likewise, will my severum ruin any attempt to put java moss or anything else living and green in their tank? I guess good thing it's going to be the 55, since you say that size isn't much fun to aquascape anyway.

[TKOS]

I don't know about moss, but an established amazon will probably be fine with a convict. Exepct of course that they will still manage to uproot it all the time as they are diggers. About once a week or more my friend's amazon is at the surface.

[Dahlia]

If I lay some large flat rocks around the base so they can't get to the plant roots will this help? Will it harm the plant in any way?