New 10 gallon tank

[Anne L.]

I need some help in deciding what sort of fish I should put in this new aquarium. It is for my two boys, so I want something fairly easy to keep and long-lived so that the boys' pets stick around for a while.

It sounds like goldfish will get too large for this size of tank, so what sort of tropical fish would you suggest. Also, how many plants/decorations should go in a tank this size?

Please help a real newbie to this; we've never had fish before, except for the goldfish in the little bowl when I was a kid.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Welcome!
I think a nice little school of corys and some sort of tetras will make a nice tank to look at for the kids, and fairly easy to keep. 10 gallons is fairly small so you dont want too many fish that get too big.
If you want to try plants go for some java fern and anubias, and crypts are really easy to grow and like to send up runners.
Make sure you read up on cycling your tank first and all the water requirements of the fish you want to keep.

:)

[LMOUTHBASS]

well welcome to the hobby!!! I'm glad you posted here to get some info n get on the right track!!! the first thing you need to do is cycle your tank - don't get fish until you do as they will probaly die because of the ammonia level in your tank as well as nitrite! this stuff can be a little confusing i know when i was a newbie i was lost till i found this site unfortunatly for me though i already had fish in my aquarium! So,,,,,,


set the tank up add some live bacteria you can find this in your local pet shop it comes in a bottle about 3 bucks or so


let the tank cycle this can take anywhere from 3-6 weeks IME


test the water every few days for ammonia and nitrites these are poisonous to your fish


once your ammonia goes to 0 your on your way! your nitrites will spike shortly there after at this point it won't be much longer once your nitrites got very low (they shoul be 0) then it is safe to add a few fish


The simplest types of fish woul be zebra danios their fun, fast, and cheap!!! anywhere from 69 cents to a buck a piece and very common they now come in gold colors as well!!! They are hardy and are tough to kill they can live through it all some people cycle their tanks with them!!! Because of their price even if they die it's no biggie because it's a learning experience you might lose some fish along the way
or
you can go with whitecloud minnows or some kind of tetras althoug i woul avoid neon tetras at first as they haven't been too hardy IME
or for color a lot of people start with platies they are beautifull and hardy about a buck to three each and are fun to watch the only thing is they will reproduce quickly but IME most of the babies are eaten by parents - if you go this route you can either keep all of one sex or go with two females for every male just ask the employee to show you which is which hopefully they will know!!!


some other good fish for 1st timers woul be guppies, swordtails,maybe mollies these are all live beares so the same thing woul apply with the ammount of males vs females in the tank
oh yeah almost forgot cories are a great fish too!!! (they are the only type of catfish i woul go with at this point they don't eat algae but will eat scraps form the ground if you get them don't let them them just survive eating scraps they won't get enough to stay alive- supplement them with some sinking shrimp pellets or crumbles - mine love hikari sinking wafers!!!) also keep them in a group of 3 they like to be together are very peaceful and will be a fav of yours in no time!!! awesome fish!!!

some people start with gourami's which are fun too but i woul suggest getting to know some other fish 1st as they can be a bit territorial and might be hard to mix some other fish with although they are generally peacefull


basically you want something to survive some mistakes


i woul avoid angel fish they will get to big they are pretty though
avoid cichlids
avoid most catfish with long whiskers and tiger barbs these are a little tougher to keep just thoughts
goodluck hope this helps !!!
p.s. if you have a friend who has a cycled tank ask to borrow some of their gravel place it in a nylon this will get you some good bacteria n cycle your tank quicker as long as their tank is in good shape of course!!!

[Aquarius0015]

Don't forget about bettas! Of course, you should only have one, but they are very colorful and do not require too much effort. Their pretty flowing fins are a target for nippy fish though, so keep that in mind in case you think you might want to get some tiger barbs or another aggressive fish a little bit later on.

[Wingman]

LmouthBass has the most in-depth description I have ever seen for setting up a 10-gallon pet aquarium. If you ever want to get into the hobby seriously, I think he's a great person to talk to.

All the testing supplies and constant water checks are not necessary if you want your kids to maintain any type of interest. Here's my two cents:)

1. Make sure you have a thermometer (stick on is fine), a heater and a small bottle of water conditioner. The instructions for use on the heater are easy to understand.

2. Rinse the gravel before you put it in the tank! Put the gravel in the tank and fill with water. Put in the water conditioner. Place plants in a beautiful arrangement (this is great for the kids). Place the filter and heater on the side.

--You can put as many decorations as you want in the tank, but keep in mind, the focus is the fish. I would say 4 or 5 plants (if you're going synthetic) and a nice castle or driftwood. Fish do need hiding places to act normally.

--I do NOT recommend real plants. They require a little more attention and although they are beautiful, if things go wrong, the tank quickly gets very unsightly.

3. Let the filter run overnight. Go to the store the next day and buy ONE or TWO hearty fish (mollies, platys, a betta, guppies). Leave these two (or one) fish in the tank for about a week or two. After that, add fish slowly, up to three at a time, with the same amount of time between.

THAT'S IT. If you want to set up a tank without spending $150 bucks on testing equipment and water additives, add 2 hearty fish, wait about 2 weeks and I promise you it will be cycled.

This is a fun and interesting hobby. If your kids are going to be the caretakers, get the MOST hearty fish you can (the ones I mentioned are EXCELLENT).

One final note. The general rule for fish is 1 inch of fish per gallon. The fish I mentioned will grow to about 1.5 in. Therefore you could keep about 6-8 fish in a well-run 10 gallon tank.

[Wingman]

If you let it, this tank can be as easy as the bowl you had when you were a kid. Don't think that the hobby has changed that much.

[Anne L.]

Thank you all ever so much! Your replies have been so helpful to me.

It seems as though we are on the right track as to the type of fish I have been thinking of getting. I'm glad a betta fish will live in the tank with the others because they are so beautiful.

We are going to set up the tank this weekend and run it, and then likely get the fish the next weekend after. This is a Christmas present for our two boys, so they are getting it a little early to avoid all of the rushing around at Christmas.

They can't have other pets because of allergies, and you should see how excited they are about this aquarium.

I'm sure I will be around this forum for the next little while looking for tips and hints.

Must get to work here, so thanks again, all.

[viboy]

Remember to load up the tank slowly with fish. I realize that it is a Christmas present and therefore fishless cycling is probably out the question therefore you need to only get a few fish (1 per child) to satisfy them over Christmas. No point getting a bunch of fish and then have them die due to the tank not being cycled. Cycling is also important part of the overall lifespan of the fish. The less stress on the fish the longer they are going to live.

[Anne L.]

Actually, viboy, we are going to cycle the tank this weekend, probably for the whole week, and then add the fish the next weekend. This is for the health of the tank, but also because we likely won't have time to get the fish this weekend.

We've talked to the kids, who are 6 and 9, and told them how the tank works, and why it's important to only get 2 fish to begin with and add more later. They're really interested in doing this, and are o.k. with waiting and doing everything the right way.

I' d also like to get them the fish closer to Christmas, so it seems like they're getting a present then.

[Anne L.]

Ok, folks, now I have another question. I've been reading about cycling the tank. Do I have this right?

We should set up the tank with everything, plants, decorations, etc. and let it run for 24 hours.

Should we then add a couple of fish right away or is it o.k. to leave the tank empty until the next weekend? Which would be best?

[LMOUTHBASS]

Hi there,
I would wait as long as possible to add the fish, try getting some of the bacteria in a bottle i mentioned it shoul help speed up the process!!!
believe me fishy cycling is a painful process (constant water changes) the best woul be to wait about 3 weeks but because it's a gift try to at least wait a week then i wouln't get more than 2-3 hardy fish that were mentioned above - you shoul be ok!


wingman has some great comments too!


keep in touch here we'll help you figure it all out!


but no matter what you do DON'T ADD ANY FISH IF THERE'S AMONIA IN THE TANK!!! this will kill them in a jiff!!! it's ok if you have some nitrites that isn't as poisonous but make sure 0 amonia buy an amonia test kit make sure thats gone it shoul clear out in a week then your all set for next weeken!!!

[tomm10]

Anne, this depends on how you want to cycle the tank. There are three basic ways you can go.

1. Fishless Cycle. This is the cheapest way to cycle the tank as all you'll pay for is pure ammonia. If you do a quick search here on fishless cycle you'll find plenty of info on it. Basically you add pure ammonia in a tank without fish to start the colony of nitrifying bacteria in the tank. The great part about this cycling is that you don't stress fish because you don't add them until the tank is fully cycled (ammonia and nitrite levels are both at zero and nitrates are under 20). The bad part is that it can take 2-4 weeks depending upon how lucky you are and during that time you can't have any fish in the tank.

2. Fishy Cycling. This is the old school way of doing things where you purchase a couple of hardy fish, plop them in the tank and let their waste and food provided the ammonia for cycling. the upside is that you get fish in the tank but the downside is that you stress the fish terribly and you may lose some. During this type of cycle ammonia and nitrites can rise posing a danger to your fish you'll find yourself doing daily water changes in an effort to keep the water safe. This cycle will probably last four weeks but I've heard horror stories of it lasting weeks longer.

3. Bio Spira. This is the real new-fangled approach. Bio Spira is bacteria in a packet made by Marineland. You won't find it everywhere as its only sold in local fish stores (not petco/petsmart) and there is a chance that no one in you are will carry it. If all else fails you can buy it online. In fact, Bernie sells it cheaper online, with shipping, than I can buy it locally.
Bio Spira provides all the nitrifying bacteria your tank needs right in its packet. You can get a dose that will treat 30 gallons.

With Bio Spira you add the packet to your tank with your fish at the same time (not exactly the same time but the same day anyway) :p The tank should be cycled immediately. The upside is that you get your tank cycled immediately and you get to add fish quickly. The downside is that Bio Spira isn't real cheap (about $11-15 I think) and sometimes you can get a batch that doesn't work. If that happens you can just add more but its can be a little hassle. I still favor this route, especially since I have the patience of a child and want my fish NOW :D

If you go with Bio Spira or Fishy cycling, you can let you tank sit with the filter on for about 24 hours. I let mine sit for 48 just to be safe but 24 will work.

[Wingman]

Anne L.,

I have not heard better advice about setting up a fish tank. I wish this forum was around when I set mine up!

My opinion was that fishy cycling is the best way to go, but I forgot about Bio Spira. If you feel insecure about using fish (which isn't too risky if you change %10 of water once a week), then Bio Spira is the way to go!

P.S. LmouthBass, thanks for the comment, I know I'll be consulting you for advice in the future.

[Wingman]

I didn't answer your last question:
You've got it, put in the gravel, plants, filter and heater.

It's ok to run the tank overnight or for a week, there is no bacteria in it, the only thing you're trying to get rid of is chlorine (water conditioner will take care of that). The only balance you need to worry about is temperature (heater).

Once the fish get in, all the magic starts. It's after the fish are added that you need to wait 2 weeks (min.) to add more fish.

[rich]

yeah there has to be an ammonia source (fish wastes, clear ammoonia) to get the cycle started at all. if you add bacteria and dont have any ammonia for them to eat and break down your bacteria colony wont last to long. id go with either fishless which provides a basic understanding of the nitrogen cycle before you add fish or the bio spira and a slow adding of bio-load if your not feeling patient.

[Aquarius0015]

Anne L., what kind of fish are you leaning towards, both in short term (possibly for fishy cycling?) and long term? I am interested in what appeals to your boys, too. When my family had our 20 gallon community tank, I loved Angels and plastic plants, whereas my sister liked tetras (especially neons) and bright, god-awful gravel and plastic ship-wreck style decorations that hooked up to the air pump.

[LMOUTHBASS]

it'sp to you those are your options- i think their both valid points


i did a fishy cycle with a 20g and found it to be a pain in the butt - then again at the time i had never heard of the nitrogen cycle and started my tank with close to 19 fish!!! (poor newbie i was)!!!
i think my fish only lived because of this website and my constant water changes through the ordeal!!!
i think the most important thing is to not put fish in while you have amonia this will kill them quickly or shorten their lifespan
but agani a hardy fish shoul make it through


as mentioned earlier you do have to have amonia to start thebacteria colony in the tank the the bacteria eats the amonia though and then produces nitrite - i personally woul wait until you show 0 ammonia or very low ammonia then go from there!!! but with a 10 g it shoulnt be to much to manage either route you go!!!

[~*LuvMyKribs*~]

Long ago when my family had a 10 gallon, we went through so many fish its hard to remember what we had (its sad really, but we listened to the lfs and nothing ever worked).
I was like 11 or 12, and my sister 8 or so, and the fish i remember liking most were the cory catfish and the guppies because of thier long pretty tails. Kissing gouramies were cool too, but they can get big so i dont reccommend them.
My mom liked her angel the best. And when our heater went bazzurk and cooked all our fish, our chinese algae eater was the only one left. go figure. little brat.

Anyways, there are lots of cool fish out there that the boys i'm sure would love to watch. Danios are fun because they are constantly moving, at least my six are, never a dull moment!

[MrGoodbytes]

Wow, lucky you!

The advice in this thread is gold. I don't think I can add anything to it. I wish I had known about this forum when I first started up. I had to learn the hard way :(.

Graeme

[Anne L.]

I talked to a lady at the fish store yesterday and she suggested adding the water, plants, decorations, etc., letting the tank run for a week, and then adding 2 hardy fish. She also mentioned adding something called cycle, the water conditioner, and something else which is supposed to lessen the stress on the fish.

Is she on the right track with this, or does it seem like a bit much?

I'd like to get started with this tomorrow or the next day, so what do you all think of this - I'm starting to get nervous and confused about the whole thing.

:confused:

Edit: Aquarius, I'm thinking of getting some platies, danios, or such. The lady at the fish store told me to get 2 cheaper hardy fish to start with, but I'm not sure which one she meant. I intend to go back there tomorrow and find out more.

[Aquarius0015]

I am no expert, so by no means take my advice for gold, but from what I gather about cycling, running an empty tank without an ammonia source will do nothing to cultivate a bacteria colony. It certainly will not harm anything, but running an empty tank for a week will just delay the beginning of the cycling stage.

As for the "stress" reducers in water conditioners, there is heated debate currently whether this does any good or not, check out the recent posts regarding this in the forum.

I have never kept danios, but I understand that they are a schooling fish. Getting only two might stress them a little bit, but getting more would not be good for cycling, so I suggest a different fish to begin with. Two platies might work, but be warned that livebearers breed like rabbits. This is not a huge problem, but you might have a little trouble explaining to your boys that the fry have disappeared because the parents ate them (and if they do manage to survive, your tank will be quickly overrun with them).

If you are considering a betta (sorry, I'm partial to them), this would make an excellent fish to cycle with. So would some white cloud mt. minnows (I think) but they do better with cooler temperatures and it sounds like you want a tropical tank.

Of course I am not too experienced, maybe the Elder Gods of the forum want to make some other suggestions? They never steer me wrong.

[Prometheus]

Originally posted by Anne L.
I talked to a lady at the fish store yesterday and she suggested adding the water, plants, decorations, etc., letting the tank run for a week, and then adding 2 hardy fish. She also mentioned adding something called cycle, the water conditioner, and something else which is supposed to lessen the stress on the fish.

Is she on the right track with this, or does it seem like a bit much?

:confused:

Edit: Aquarius, I'm thinking of getting some platies, danios, or such. The lady at the fish store told me to get 2 cheaper hardy fish to start with, but I'm not sure which one she meant. I intend to go back there tomorrow and find out more.

Danios are hard to kill (so are diamond tetras - and they are beautiful and do well with only 2-3) Danios are schoolers, but in my 55 I have 7 of them, and after day 3 in the tank, they just stay in pairs 99% of the time...

for cost effectiveness, I'd say run the tank for 24 -48 hours (using just water conditioner) put in two danios and let it ride for a 2 weeks if possible (Christmas will be upon you and you can add one fish per child on the 23rd)...

Just check your water and do any needed water changes (50% max in a day 20-25% preferred).

FWIW, I'd get my test supplies from www.bigals.com for US buyers they are 4.50-4.99 for each test bottle vs. 15 bucks aer the local places...

Good luck, don't rush things and it'll be fine!

[Anne L.]

Thanks for the replies! Well, we're going to set up the tank this weekend sometime and probably let it run till next weekend, just because we won't have time to get out during the week to the fish store. We're pretty busy with Christmas activities and all that stuff.

I've talked to the kids about not rushing to get a bunch of fish right away and they're really interested in doing this the right way. So we should be o.k. with just a couple of fish for the first 2-3 weeks or so.

It's very reassuring to know that I can come here for advice at just about any time and someone will respond.

Well, wish us luck tomorrow on our new adventure into aquaria!

:)

[Anne L.]

Well, we set up the tank today with all of the plants and such. I need to pick up a power bar tomorrow though as we thought we had a spare one, no luck.

However, the filter and air pump work. We'll wait until tomorrow to plug in the heater as the tap water was so cold. We'll put in the water conditioner tomorrow as well.

pH was 7.4, on the top end of the test kit I have. Is this o.k. for most fish; according to the little book I have, it should be. Will this change once the water conditioner is in? I plan to test again anyway to see what happens.

The kids picked out some fairly gaudy plants and a little castle, but it looks pretty nice even without the fish.

Onwards and upwards for now!

[MrGoodbytes]

Glad to hear everything is working out.

The pH itself isn't as important as the pH stability, and 7.4 is ok for most fish. If your test maxed out at 7.4, then you may need a high-range test kit if you want to be sure.

Graeme

[Anne L.]

How often should we do water changes and why? Also, what should we be testing for; pH, ammonia, nitrates/nitrates, or what? And how should the water changes be done?

I did get a pH kit and ammonia test kit, but now I'm not sure when to start doing water changes and when to clean the tank and how.

Boy, this seems a lot harder than I thought, although it likely isn't once you get into it. I know some people just buy an aquarium, throw fish into it and hope for the best, but I'd like to do this right the first time and not have to learn the hard way by having the poor fish die.

Sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions, but this is a little intimidating to me at first.

What we'd eventually like to end up with is 3 corys, 2 tetras, and a couple of others.

Thanks for all the expert help on here.

[Prometheus]

Originally posted by Anne L.
How often should we do water changes and why? Also, what should we be testing for; pH, ammonia, nitrates/nitrates, or what? And how should the water changes be done?

I did get a pH kit and ammonia test kit, but now I'm not sure when to start doing water changes and when to clean the tank and how.


Water conditioner won't change your pH.

Water changes will start after your start-up fish are in. What to expect. Ammonia will spike. Do water changes to keep it within acceptable levels ( below 2ppm. at 2ppm fish are in big trouble) Next the nitrites will spike and ammonia will drop... (thats good things are working) do water changes to keep nitrites at or below .5 ppm (above .5ppm fish are in trouble at 1.0 they start to die quickly). Next the water changes will be alot easier since you'll only have to do them to remove nitrates. Which should be kept below 40 ppm ( Preferably below 20ppm, but durring the inital cycle I find my tanks nitrites rise quickly)...

Just bear in mind that all this work is temp. and the daily testing turns into weekly testing soon enuff...

Cleaning the tank. I vacumm the gravel with a $5.00 vacumm hose thing. The 'vacumming' of the gravel draws out the water, and I kill 2 birds with one stone... I just vacumm until I reach my desired water removal level.

If everything is kept fine thats about all the cleaning it needs (after several months a 'wipe down' ( no chemicals) of the inside of the filter intake tube(s) ect. to remove some of the gunk...

[erico56]

Bettas aren't definitely for the community tank.Please do not
expect them to get along with other fish living side by side.
Bettas are only for betta tanks.See it for yourself at your nearby pet stores.Great looking fish they are,but it doesn't mean they are supposed to be treated just like others.They have absolutely different characters with others.Cylcling and recycling until the fish finally arrive is surely the most important thing but choosing the type of fish to put in later is much important as well.

[Aquarius0015]

Actually, two of the LFS keep bettas in tanks with other fish, usually with cories or something that hangs out in a different "zone" of the aquarium. This is a much better idea than keeping them in tiny cups, but alas, they do that, too. I would not treat a betta terribly differently from other fish, except for keeping them in slow moving water and away from tiger barbs. In fact, bettas are a lot like gouramis and paradise fish in that you should only keep 1 male and the fact that you do not need highly oxygenated water (because of their labyrinth organ).

[MrGoodbytes]

When I used to keep bettas, they never bothered my other fish. They just did their own thing. The only thing is that, like Aquarius said, males can't be kept together.

For water changes, if you want to make things a bit easier, you could pick up one of those Python-type hoses. They hook up to your tap and you can empty, vacuum, and refill with the same hose. It's not too necessary for a 10 gallon, but it will make things simpler, expecially if you end up getting more tanks.

Graeme

[Prometheus]

Originally posted by MrGoodbytes
When I used to keep bettas, they never bothered my other fish. They just did their own thing. The only thing is that, like Aquarius said, males can't be kept together.


Ditto, my male betta never bothered any of my other fish or vice versa...

They just don't get along with other males in my experience....

[Anne L.]

Well, things just keep getting more interesting with this aquarium and not in a terribly good way.

We noticed that the inside hood and lights in the aquarium were getting splashed with water. We put in a bubble wall in the back of the tank for aeration and this is what's doing it. However, the lights are exposed to the water; there isn't an additional glass cover or anything.

When we looked in the (crappy) instructions about the light hood it told us that the hood must be used with a glass aquarium cover (which was not included in the kit) and that air stones should not be used as it will wreck the lights. So what on earth are you supposed to do for aeration?

Now what to do? Should we just get a glass cover that goes between the lights and water or what? I'm in a quandary. Sigh......it's not been a great day and this hasn't helped a lot. :mad:

[Aquarius0015]

Well, if you have a Hang-on-Back filter, the mere gentle cascade of water will provide aeration. So would a powerhead that agitates the surface of the water.

As a final measure, live plants help add to the dissolved oxygen in a tank. If you have the proper lights (full spectrum fluorescent are best) then there a lot of species that you could try. I like my aponogetons. They came from Wal-Mart, 7 ugly brown bulbs for $2 or $3. You pretty much just drop them in, and the ones that don't float will eventually sprout.

However if it's not too late to take this tank back and it really is quite crappy, I would suggest getting an Eclipse. I have heard only good things about them. Search for Eclipse on www.Epinions.com. They are supposedly very intuitive, low maintenance, attractive and effective. I will be getting an Eclipse-1 hood shortly.

[Anne L.]

Aquarius0015, I called the store where we bought the aquarium kit (Petcetera - probably not the best place but not much choice here) and explained the problem with the hood and lights. I talked to the store manager and also mentioned that the hood doesn't fit well and that the air pump is quite noisy.

He told us to bring the hood with lights and the air pump down to the store and he would replace it with better quality equipment from another kit that he has.

So we'll see what happens. I didn't get any grief or attitude from him at all, so if they follow through, I'll be a little more inclined to go back than I have been in the last few days.

[Aquarius0015]

That's wonderful! I wish Richmond chain stores had 'souls.' Lol, I suppose they do, they're just locked up somewhere in a box.

[Anne L.]

Aquarius, good news! My husband brought the new hood and air pump home last night, and it is of pretty decent quality. The hood is a Hagen brand, not sure of the air pump. The air pump is much quieter than the other, and the hood with lights fits much better and has the proper cover to protect the lights from moisture.

I've posted in my other thread about filters that we are going to go with fishless cycling as it sounds much more healthy for the fish, so wish us luck in our new adventure.

Edited to add that the manager at our Petcetera store was nothing but helpful with the tank problem. It's good to see that some people are still customer-focused in this day and age, especially in a chain store. I fully expected to be told that we should suck it up because we bought a sale kit.

[CordyRoy]

This will help you with fishless cycling. I used this method and it worked out beautifully.

http://aquatic-hobbyist.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15

This explains it in a very clear fashion. Good luck!