Pygmy Chain Sword

[petluvr]

I am setting up a new tank and would like to have pygmy chain sword as a sorta carpet. Tanks specs
L-36 in.
W-18 in.
H-17 in.
Will have 78 watts of T5HO lighting over it running DIY CO2 through a canister as well as through a Duetto. Substrate Eco-Complete dosing flourish only. Will it be possible to grow this plant?

[petluvr]

Where's BK when you need him? :)

[clb2196]

I have a similar setup, I'm interested to know too. I keep deciding I want a carpet like plant then questioning myself because I know it's more maintenance.

[jpappy789]

Echinodorus tenellus?

I dont think you would have a problem, but lighting looks to be on the low side if you want a lush carpet.

[petluvr]

Yes, echinodorus tenellus. I guess my question is will it chain like it is suppose to?

[SMinNC]

No I Don't Know.... but...

Besides staying at a Holiday Inn Express one time.

I had a 30g Long, that is basically the same as what seems to be a 40 breeder that your describing. Which is just deeper, front to back.

I did have Flourite and later on, just ran a 96w cf with diy co2.
(I also had a 30w, but I ran without it for a few weeks with no real difference)

I'd guess the first thing I'd wonder about on yours. Is if you have the two lights close to each other, and mostly over the area for the chain swords?

If so, I would say they'll chain like you want them to.

Here's what mine done in 1 month and a few days.

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t85/simplemaninnc/Picture021.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t85/simplemaninnc/Picture070.jpg

That hygro done Alot of pearling.

[wkndracer]

Grows in all my thanks.
Some just faster than others from 1.25wpg plain gravel to 3.6wpg CO2 injected planted in mineralized soil with a flourite cap. Walstad style top soil sub at 2.3wpg. Gets leggy without CO2 but trimmed comes back with shorter leaves. Not a hard plant.

But mine look like this googled image.
http://www.aqua-fish.net/imgs/plants/echinodorus-tenellus-profile.jpg

The long blades under the fish are the same plant in the low tech 1.25wpg
spawning tank.

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad358/wkndracer/CopyofDSC04102.jpg

[petluvr]

Thanks for the info now I guess it is just going to be finding someone who has it for sale.

[tanker]

IMO---My dwarf sag makes a better carpet. My tenellus grows too, but not as fast.

[petluvr]

IMO---My dwarf sag makes a better carpet. My tenellus grows too, but not as fast.
Would dwarf sag work under these conditions?

[theredchaser]

I think your aquarium is a bit too tall for your provided lighting. Tenellus grows decently in my low shrimp tank but in my taller discus tank the growth is pretty weak. I'm pretty sure there are lots of other factors involved but dwarf sags did do better in my taller discus tank.

Pic: tenellus in shrimp tank H: 12in

[mellowvision]

dwarf sag works in almost all conditions, but it may not spread rapidly in lower light conditions. it's a great plant though.

it doesn't really form a carpet as much, since it's leaves spring up and over, but it can form a sort of canopy 2" off the substrate that a lot of small fish love swimming through.

[wkndracer]

Chains and sag don't mix well may be the growth issue. Chemical blocks sent out by one stop the growth of the other. Walstad lists this in her book regarding plants protecting themselves via growth inhibitors. Chains and dwarf sag were specifically listed as used in tests.

I'd have to be home and open the book to quote the $5 words used in the study results and water chemical analysis.

[jpappy789]

Interesting.

Dwarf sag does grow well in pretty much all conditions, however I've heard even the dwarf variety grows taller given more light.

[wkndracer]

I'm home and opened the book to page #35 to quote the $5 words.

Allelopathic behavior has been reported in 97 species of aquatic plants. Allelochemicals primary function is to protect the plant. Included in two studies were common aquarium plants Cabomba, Hornwort and Vallisneria.
Allelochemicals isolated from aquatic plants have been shown to inhibit a variety of organisms.
:omg:
In a closed environment such as the aquarium where allelochemicals could accumulate, allelopathic effects are further increased.
:jaw:
Ecology of the Planted Aquarium
A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise for the Home Aquaruarist.
By Diana Walstad

Sorry folks I'm out of $5.00 bills so I'm out of words.
Had the book for 3 months and find theres way more than NPK, CO2 and light to play with.

[SMinNC]

Wow! I knew about biological warfare with corals, but... wow.

[petluvr]

I'm home and opened the book to page #35 to quote the $5 words.

Allelopathic behavior has been reported in 97 species of aquatic plants. Allelochemicals primary function is to protect the plant. Included in two studies were common aquarium plants Cabomba, Hornwort and Vallisneria.
Allelochemicals isolated from aquatic plants have been shown to inhibit a variety of organisms.
:omg:
In a closed environment such as the aquarium where allelochemicals could accumulate, allelopathic effects are further increased.
:jaw:
Ecology of the Planted Aquarium
A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise for the Home Aquaruarist.
By Diana Walstad

Sorry folks I'm out of $5.00 bills so I'm out of words.
Had the book for 3 months and find theres way more than NPK, CO2 and light to play with.
???? Am I dumb or am I just tired but I don't understand what this has to do with what I am asking.

[zzyzx85]

^basically, what that says is some plants will chemically attack each other to prevent the other from growing/reproducing. the point: don't have swords and sags in the same tank.

I had e. tenellus in a 20g std (16.75" tall) with 1.4wpg. It didn't die but it didn't spread. it just lived. I upped the lighting to 2.8wpg and it took off, pretty much taking over the whole foreground.

[schaadrak]

If allelopathy worked that way, there would only be one or two plants surviving at a time in our tanks. I think the real reason dwarf sag and E. tenellus don't mix well is because the sags can out compete the swords more readily since the swords are a little more demanding. In the other direction swords will do better in soft water than sags, so they might win in a tank with softer water. I think allelopathy is used more on organisms that might do the plant harm than just plain old competition.

Back to the original post, you will not get a thick carpet of E. tenellus (or most other carpet plants) without higher lighting which of course means more ferts and CO2.

[petluvr]

I think I may just skip the idea then as I really don't plan to go any higher with the lighting.

[jpappy789]

There's no need to compete for resources when all their needs are met...;)

[schaadrak]

There's no need to compete for resources when all their needs are met...;)

Amen, brother.

But Dwarf sag does have the ability to grow faster and slightly taller, so it could very easily crowd out E. tenellus, even where there is an abundance of light and nutrients.

petlvr - If you're looking for a carpet, have you looked into Marsilea? It forms a carpet even in low light. It looks similar to glosso.

[petluvr]

HHHMMM no I haven't now there's an idea. THANKS:)