A bit more <shrug/looking at almosty empty tank> than b4

[AthagaMor]

So I blew my plan past you guys and got some great suggestions... and a lot of different names of fish (of which I expect don't mix well...) So I'm looking for some further advice.

What I have:
-38g reg. tank, power filter, heater
-enough plants to grow the amazon (mostly crypts)
-so grape vine and walabi wood
-lots of live bearer experience (hopeing to move beyond)

you guys suggested: rams, kribs, rasboras, tetras, gouramis (still liking the idea of) and corys to go with the angels I had planned on.

Some ?s:

1) I looked mostly at the German Blue Ram (the others are, from what I read, a bit touchier. The pH window I found was 5.0-6.5, which is pretty low/acidic... lower than the pH suggested for angels, as well. Bad info? Alternate suggestions?

2) Also, (Rams) I found a minimum tank requisite of 20-25g/pair. Does this mean I have to leave that space for the pair solely, or can I put other community-welcome fish in with them (following the +/-* 1" of fish/1g of water rule)?

3) I read that rams (maybe it was kribs) don't care much for catfish. I've got that pesky spotted raphael in the tank right now... fast become my bane.... anyway. The only cats that were reportedly acceptable were small corys. Any truth in this?

4) Krib are very nice looking as well. They have a similiar pH window as the rams, however both have about the same temperments and habits. Can they live together (EX: 1 pair of rams and 1 pair of Kribs) in the same 38g tank? And can I still have other fish in there?

5) I didn't find much interest in the rasboras (not much color) and I'm kinda 'eh' on tetra. Are these my only two options on 'dither' fish? I read about platies being mixed with rams... I also read about neons/cardinals being chomped by kribs and rams (I suppose breaking the "mouth rule.") Does the list go on?

6) I looked at convict cichlids too. Not colorful, persay, but seem hearty, and aggressively characterful. I'm wondering if, with the size of my tank, a pair might behave in a community...?

7) I also found a fish, but found little else about it... Double Full Red Cockatoo Cichlid (there was a similar species, but this was more colorful). I'm wondering if this is a possibility and, if so, where I might get some info on it.

Being as these are mostly cichlid related questions, I've got rather large gravel at the bottom of my planted tank (13 plants). I would guess than most of the substrate is ~1cm in dia. Do I need different stuff? Can I mix stuff in? I know some cichlids unroot plants... any problems with those above?

Thanks in advance. I know that was a ton.

[NatakuTseng]

Well I think the info on the rams is a bit off in my opinion. I currently keep my rams in a pH of 7.4-7.6, both pairs are perfectly healthy and happy, infact both pairs are spawning on about a 5 day rotation. Second is the space issue,a 25 gallon tank is a very large tank for a pair of rams, you can easily, and they will be happy if you kept a pair in 10gallons. So 10gallons is perfectly suitable for a pair of even breeding rams. As far as them being bad with cats, not with my experience. I keep them with pygmy cories, they only get about an inch long, and I have never seen my rams bother them unless they got too close to the ram's eggs. So in my own experience they are peaceful toward bottom dwelling fish.

I wouldn't suggest keeping the Kribs with the rams, the rams will get their butt kicked around the tank. As far as them being in the same pH range as rams, yeah they are, Kribs are happy in everything from strongly acidic water to strongly alkaline, they are a very versitile fish. From my experience they do not have the same temperment, kribs tend to be much more aggressive.

On to the rasboras and tetras. Not big into the rasboras so I can't help ya much there, and tetras I can't say much either except at 80*F I would strongly reccomend you stay away from Neons. They like the tempature lower and will eventually die off at a temp that high. Cardinals on the other hand like the warmer temperature and do better in water 80*f or higher.

Ahh yes Convicts, rats of the cichlid world. If your going to keep convicts in a 38g they should be the about the only inhabitants in their tank. They are aggressive, and if you end up with a male and female, you'll have eggs and fry in no time, and the aggression level will take a notch up big time. I dare say they would probably end up killing the cat and angels you have in there right now, and dig up your plants.

The cockatoo's are apisto's, so they stay small, few inches at most. Great fish, Apistogramma cacatoides. So you have a few ideas about dwarf cichlids now, the rams, kribs, and the cockatoos. I wouldn't keep one with the other, possibly rams and cockatoos. They may leave one and another alone for the most part. If your going to have the cockatoos though, they are best kept in a harem situation, meaning one male too two or more females, they should be alright with your cats too. They have a similar tank size suggestion as the rams.

Everything there would be compatable with the angels and cats, except the convicts, which I think would end up killing the other inhabitants. Another word of caution would be with the tetras or rasboras, depending on what you get, and the size of your angels, be prepared to the angels to have themselves a meal. And I wouldn't suggest keeping the Kribs alongside the Rams or Cockatoos, but you could try keeping the rams with the cockatoos. If the tank is moderately planted, you should be able to keep them together since they will be able to establish territories away from one another.

The gravel should be ok with everything listed.
Hope this helps you out a little bit!

[AthagaMor]

great info, thank you.

[rich]

ive got a trio of cacatu in a 29 gal and have to say they are great fish. fairly peacefull fish that tend not to bother the other fish in the tank much. the only time they do is if a female has layed eggs or another fish tries to go in their flowerpot. i keep mine at 6.8 ph and have had no problems with them whatsoever. keyholes are also nice smallish peacefull SA cichlids and im pretty fond of them right now. im going to set up a 55 just for keyholes in the next few weeks.

[AthagaMor]

...still going... (this is so much different than setting up a carp tank... swords, platies, whatnot)

I've ran a bit deeper on the above fish and also bumped into the following, interesting ones. Here's some fish I'd like to add to the krib, Ap. cacatoides, rams (GBR), and angelfish interest list.

keyholes (Aeq. maronii)
Ap. rotpunkt
Ap. borelli (opal was very nice)
Ap. panduro

Any input on the above 4 species?

I'm leaning slightly toward SA cichlids (mostly the apisto's), though I haven't tossed Kribs out of the pic yet. Originally I had a worldly hodge-podge of fish. I'm trying to narrow this down w/o sacrificing my original goals. color, lush plant life, community tank. It seems the SAs are slightly more peaceful than the Afs... generally speaking.

I did also look at:

Aeq. curviceps
Aeq. dorsiger
Nann. anomala
Anom. thomasi
Ap. filamentosus
Ap. nijsseni
Ap. nerberti
Ap. eunotus
Ap. macmasteri
Ap. steindachner
Sata. leucosticta
Geo. surinamen...

While some of these were recommended as good, hearty, fun fish, they aren't colorful enough from what I saw (for me, in this case). It may have been the pics... if you strongly feel so, please tell me so and, if possible, give me a link to a good pic.

Thanks for the help - you guys are helping!

[rich]

out of that list i only know the keyholes and the opal. i think those would get along well as they are both peacefull and accept the same ph parameters. i also have both satan. jurupari and leucosticta. the leu is far more colorful with shiney blue specks and blue bars around his face. a very pretty, and peacefull fish. would make a nice center fish in a large tank with other smaller cichlids as they get up to 10".

[NatakuTseng]

Pretty much all the apistos have the same needs and temperment, and stay around the same size. I had a pair of Opal's in with one of my ram pairs. This ended in the opals hiding all the time, not coming out to eat, and eventually they died, the rams didn't tollerate them well. The tank was also moderately planted with quite a few refuges.