any chemists? i got a heck of a question

ewok

ewok

Senile Member
Jun 11, 2002
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new haven ct.
while browsing posts something hit me.....

we all know bleach + ammonia is a serious nono.

isn't chloramine something similar? (chloramine = chlorine (bleach?) and ammonia)

just a wacky thought that hit me while i was reading........
 
Not exactly. I looked up the equation for chloramine and it looks like, during the chemical reaction, one hydrogen atom is released from ammonia, or two hydrogen atoms are released from ammonium.

If chloramine was ammonia + chlorine then the chemical equation would be NH3Cl, the ones I found for chloramine were NHCl and NH2Cl.

I could be wrong though... I don't have anyone to check :D

HTH
 
if i remember correctly, it uses ammonium not ammonia to combine with chlorine, hence the different properties, but i may be wrong...
 
even if they use ammonium, dumping it into high ph water would theoretically change the substance........

maybe the water dilution has something to do with it too?

interesting thoughts.
 
I had never really thought about it, so hunted around a little. If you look in the Merck Index, you get a sulfonated/chlorinated aromatic hyrocarbon (cloramine T). Interestingly, that is used for bacterial infections in ponds, but isn't the stuff in our water.

What we're dealing with is NHCl2 (dichloramine) or NH2CL (monochloramine), which is what PumaWard was saying. It's made by combining hypochlorite ion (bleach) with ammonia.

According to one book, adding NaThiosulfate dechlorinator to chloramine will essentially drive the reaction toward free ammonia/ammonium. I'm not sure if I believe it.
 
Originally posted by mogurnda
What we're dealing with is NHCl2 (dichloramine) or NH2CL (monochloramine), which is what PumaWard was saying. It's made by combining hypochlorite ion (bleach) with ammonia.
Click to expand...

that's pretty much my point tho...... if you add bleach to ammonia (or vice versa) in your house it creates a crude but toxic form of "mustard gas" i believe it was........ the point being, this is a toxic substance to humans. adding it to water makes it safe?

According to one book, adding NaThiosulfate dechlorinator to chloramine will essentially drive the reaction toward free ammonia/ammonium. I'm not sure if I believe it.
Click to expand...

"Thiosulfate" works as a dechlorinator, a couple guys here use it. i've seen it mentioned before. you can probably search that part on the forums.

anyone else? i think the whole idea is sort of interesting.... i guess i'm sort of surprised at it all, and it's so obvious i don't think anyone ever paid attention before........
 
I think what we are missing is that the end reaction of bleach and ammonia is chlorine gas. That is why you don't mix them or else you get that by product. But the water inductry is already using chlorine in its gas form so obviously they are not worried about a reaction that forms the poison gas. There would already be numerous safety measures in place.

Even if some chrloine gas doesn't react, that is already what they are pumping into our water. And it bonds too fast to worry about harming you at this end of things.
 
A little ramble here by a pure amateur...

I've understood that the basic idea behind water treatment is a risk/benefit analysis. Yes, chlorine is a toxin, chloramine even more so, but the few ppm in tap water is a small price to pay to virtually eliminate the threat of a whole host of waterborne diseases.

We humans, with our mammalian physiology are only exposed to the toxicity of water treatment chemicals through our digestive tracts, which are all about selective absorption. Its a good trade.

Fish have to "breathe" the stuff :sick: much to the annoyance of aquarium keepers.
 
So wait, if you add dechlorinator to your water before adding it to the tank, (i do), and this dechlorinator also removes chloramine.... and the products from this reaction of the break up of chloramine is ammonia and chlorine... are we not adding ammonia to the tank?
:confused:

Probebly on an insignificant scale, though.
 
^ Yes, but the ammonia is converted into an reletively harmless ammonium ion that is quickly broken down by the biofilter.
 
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