HELP Can't keep anything live (part 2)

[rica5tully]

O.K. I'm on the verge of giving up on this hobby. I'm the guy that can't keep anything alive.

There have been suggestions that my water was bad. So I emptied my 10-gallon quarantine tank, re-filled it with new saltwater (made up with RO from the LFS) and let the temperature get right. Since I didn't change the filter in my powerfilter, I assume I still have some bio-filtration.

Today I...

1) Went to the fish store and bought a domino damsel
2) carried it out in it's plastic bag only (it's 11 degrees outside)
3) Brought it home in the car (35 minutes)
4) floated it in the tank for 25 minutes
5) Discarded water from the bag and added water from the tank intermittently for 15 minutes
6) poured the fish into a net and gently put it in the tank
7) The fish went to the bottom, breathing heavily. It swam around some and acted stressed. I kept checking on it and it was the same. Finally, about 40 minutes later I looked at the tank and the fish was dead.

Question 1: If the tank is not properly cycled, would a TINY trace of amonia kill a fish in 40 minutes?

Question 2: Am I not acclimating properly (but if so, how do LFS ever keep anything alive?)

Question 3: Is it possible that being out in 11 degree weater for a total of 50 seconds (to and from the car) in a bag of water could lower the temp so much that the fish is doomed?

I would appreciate any suggestions. I'm at a loss. What could possibly be killing my fish that quick?

Thank you.

[Elmo]

Have you compared the pH of your tank water to the pH of the LFS water?

[rica5tully]

Yes, but sometimes it's hard to tell exactly with the color card of my test kit. It did seem like it could have been a little different. Maybe the difference between 8.0 and 8.3.

How much of a difference would be a problem?

If there IS a difference initially, what do I do? Will slowly acclimating the new water do the trick? Or is the fish doomed?

Thanks.

[petcrazy213]

Hi there,
I've been following your progress with your tank and have to say that even though I'm pretty new to this hobby myself I have had nearly NO problems acclimating and keeping my LFS specimins alive. It sounds like you're rushing things here with your tank set up and what not first of all. I also think it may benifit you to get a bigger set up if possible as the bigger the tank the wider margin for error and fixing those errors in time to save your fish. If a larger tank is absolutely NOT an option I wish you the best of luck with the 10.

Anyhow, if you're sure the water quality is good and all the values of the tank are where they aught to be ... pH, Spec. Grav. , Ammonia, Nitates, temp., etc. then I'm thinking it's your acclimation process. Reading what you've written as to how you acclimated your fish I have to think your rushing there as well. Here's how I acclimate all my fish and inverts ... you may want to try and see if it works for you ...

1) Buy fish from LFS

2) Leave LFS with fish IN BROWN PAPER BAG (this will help keep the fish from any drastic temps & reduces stress on the fish) ... I just purchased a scooter blenny today and it is happy as can be right now ... took it out of the pet store IN BROWN PAPER BAG.

3) The ride in the car home should be fine as long as it's not more than about an hour and there is at least 1/2 the bag full of air. (fish need the oxegen in the air to breath in the water)

4) When you get home ... take fish bag out of BROWN PAPER BAG and float in tank (TURN TANK LIGHT OFF) for 10 minutes.

5) Open bag, leaving it float in tank, and clip it to a rim on the tank so that it is still in the water but still seperate from the tank itself. Use a small cup (like a bathroom Dixi cup) and add a small amount (maybe 1/2 the cup) of your tank water to the bag. Leave the bag clipped to the side of the tank.

6) Wait 15 minutes.

7) Add another 1/2 Dixi cup of your tank water to the bag.

8) Wait 15 more minutes.

9) Add yet another 1/2 Dixi cup of your tank water to the bag.

10) Wait 15 minutes.

11) If the bag is getting full dump a bit out (but not more than 1/4 or so and put it back in the tank using the clip. Add 1 (almost full) Dixi cup of your tank water to the bag.

12) Wait 15 minutes.

13) Add another 1 (almost full Dixi cup of your tank water to the bag.

14) Wait 15 more minutes.

15) Check to see how your fish is doing ... is it just lying there in the bag or is it trying to get out?

16) If your fish wants out then it should be safe to let him into the tank ... here's how ... ( I know some will disagree with my method but it works for me!)
**** Take the bag off the clip ...
**** Turn the bag sideways in the tank so tank water goes in and the bag water comes out, mixing simultaniously.
**** Slowly tip the bag so the water and the fish make their way out of the bag and into the tank.
**** Keep and eye on your fish and see how things go.

I hope this method helps you with acclimating your fish. This is the method I use and I have had GREAT success with it. Damsels are supposedly VERY hardy little fish so I don't know what else to tell you.

Please keep us posted as to your progress.

[BrianH]

You may want to try a little longer acclimation period before adding the fish to the tank. Especially if the SG of the LFS water varies greatly from your own.

However I would never let the LFS water enter your tank. You simply do not know what chemicals you could be adding to your tank.

If a little longer acclimation does not work, I would try purchasing my livestock from another LFS.

Brian

[rica5tully]

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I'm having better luck.

I've switched to RO and longer acclimation periods and things have been going great. Today I had one damsel (in there for three weeks), two hermit crabs, and a conehead snail and everyone was happy and healthy.

The Damsel was eating like a pig and seemed great. But, then disaster....

Two nights ago I fed him some frozen brine shrimp. I tried to make sure there were no ice crystals and it was thawed. I put it in the tank and he ate some. Then he went nuts. He sped to the top, then dashed himself against the rocks and ended up upside down, on the sand, breathing heavily, with all fins fully extended. After a few minutes (literally) he recovered.

This morning, I wanted to check on him. I shined a flashlight into the tank and found him in the front, on his side on the sand gasping for air. A few minutes later he was back up and acting TOTALLY normal.

Tonight I fed him frozen food. I was careful to make sure it was totally thawed (I breathed on it on my hand) and with no ice crystals. He ate some and seemed fine. Then I put more in and he ate a big glob, went crazy, and fell to the bottom. Then he died.

What is going on? Am I feeding frozen food wrong? I think it must be the food. Or something on my hands? I've fed frozen food like this for a long time to other fish and they were fine.

[NanoMan]

im no expert by any means but if a damsel dies that fast something is very wrong.i have bought damsels and put them directly into the tank in the past and had no probs.damsels are extremely tough.i had some damsels once that i put in a bucket with LR that i didnt need and forgot about them for like 3 months and they lived and i took them back to the LFS.i dont do this now
just because its totally wrong.to me it sounds like maybe there is
either something wrong with the fish already or maybe a stray chemical got in your tank or something .