More pressurized CO2 questions...

[jimangie1973]

I'm thinking of biting the bullet and getting a pressurized CO2 system for my new planted 55 gallon. Is the regulator shown in the link below decent? Also, what do I need in addition to it, besides a tank and diffuser?

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18478/si3675053/cl0/milwaukeeinstrumentsco2regulatorwithsolenoid

Finally, what is this for?

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18478/si3903901/cl0/milwaukeeinstrumentssolenoiddiaphragmvalve


Thanks,
Jim

[j-gens]

its ok the parts that you should worry about most is the needle valve and the regulator...

a good dual stage regulator is good to have to prevent end of the tank dumps

and a good nv is good to keep your bubble rate consistant

the regulator you listed above is a single stage i believe

[jimangie1973]

With the single stage, is there any protection against a tank dump? I don't want the possibility of killing all my fish to achieve better plant growth. Any recommendations on possibly better regulators? I've seen Sumo mentioned.

I just put water sprite in my tank on Friday and it has already grown several new branches. It is a weed. My micro sword also has runners formed. :)

Jim

[angyles]

I have a sumo and I LOVE IT. Of course it's the only one I've ever had, so I have nothing to compare it to. But the guys who make it are great to deal with, will always answer any questions that ever pop into your head (quickly), and the peace of mind I get from knowing it's the cadillac of regulators, was worth the extra $ to me. Lots of people swear by the milwuakee and don't think it's worth the money for a sumo or equivalent. you're call. I'm a worry wart so the choice was easy for me :-)

[Izzy2]

The linked regulator is an ok unit. I am currently using 2 of those and had several issues. The solenoid burned out after 2 years on both. There is no fine tuning with the needlevalve and it is heat sensitive. I paid $75 for the first and $85 for the send. I took the less expensive way out. Get a co2 drop checker and increase the bubble count very slowly over a week. Watch you fish for signs of stress. How are you planning on difusing the co2 into the water?

[gagaliya]

I'm thinking of biting the bullet and getting a pressurized CO2 system for my new planted 55 gallon. Is the regulator shown in the link below decent? Also, what do I need in addition to it, besides a tank and diffuser?

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18478/si3675053/cl0/milwaukeeinstrumentsco2regulatorwithsolenoid

Finally, what is this for?

http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp18478/si3903901/cl0/milwaukeeinstrumentssolenoiddiaphragmvalve


Thanks,
Jim

dont over do it on the regulator, all you need is an azoo - reliable, cheap and easy to setup. Milwaukee is ok but difficult to setup. This is all you need to setup a complete co2 system, everything else like ph monitor, dropchecker etc..are not needed. Remember: that works the best is the simplest.

1) regulator http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3747+9895&pcatid=9895

2) canister: http://www.aquariumplants.com/Aluminum_CO2_Cylinders_Tanks_p/t.htm

2) a check valve (plastic $1 replace every 1 year, brass $10 but use forever) from any online aquarium store

3) co2 resistant tube: http://www.marinedepot.com/CO2_Proof_Tubing_%28per_ft%29_CO2_Tubing_for_Aquar iums-CO2-CO1511-FICOTU-vi.html

4) a cool co2 diffuser: http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-diffusers/diffuser-spiro-900.html (optional, if you dont care for the look just stick the co2 tube into the filter intake)

Once hook everything up, set the bubble rate to 1 bubble per 1 sec for a 55 gallon to start things up, let it run 24/7. At night if you have a very large fish load, you can buy a cheap $10 powerhead and put it by the surface, then turn it on for a few hours when the lights turn off.

Next stop, nutrient dosing? :)

[mott]

Like everyone said here already "you get what you pay for"
The MA957 is a decent reg but the needle valve is a POS. I can dial it in but it's tricky and as soon as the psi goes below 6-700 the working pressure shoots up and I get like 15 BPS! Luckily I have a ph controller. Th sumo reg is great! The guy's are in the top of the field in knowledge and customer service. Alternatively Orlando over at GLA has nice quality regs and equipment.
Rexx Grig used to be around a lot but I think he may slowing down a little as of late because of health issuses.

http://sumoregulator.com/

http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/

http://www.bestaquariumregulator.com/CO2.html

[jimangie1973]

Thanks a lot for all the great information and links. I will pass on the Milwaukee regulator based on the feedback. Now to get the wifes permission...

[j-gens]

you can get dual stage ss regulators on ebay for like 30 bucks... piece together the rest for around 40 putting you still cheaper than the rest of those regulators

[j-gens]

also get a hagen elite mini for diffusion works amazingly for 10 dollars

[jimangie1973]

Well I ordered everything. :)

I followed gagaliya'a advice pretty closely. Everything came to about $200. I didn't see any negative issues with the Azoo regulator and it's really inexpensive. I also went with the 10# cylinder. The 20# wouldn't fit under my tank. Now to pull one of my old canister filters out to test. Time to get rid of the HOB.

Thanks for all the help guys.
Jim

[j-gens]

good luck! ;)

[Bonne46]

Did you get everything gagliya listed?

[jimangie1973]

Did you get everything gagliya listed?

Here's exactly what I got:

Azoo regulator from drsfostersmith.com
10# canister from aquariumplants.com
brass check valve from greenleafaquariums.com
10 feet co2 resistant tube from greenleafaquariums.com
spiro co2 diffuser from greenleafaquariums.com

[angyles]

personally, I think a drop checker is far more important than a diffuser. since you're already gonna be running a canister filter, that diffuses it perfectly. I certainly wouldn't call a drop checker an 'extra.' I tried to get going without one and quickly realized I had NO idea where my levels were at. Once I got one, I realized I was running it wayyyyyy low and gradually had to crank it up and up and up to get it to 20-30ppm. I got the checker and fluid (enough for a couple years at least) on ebay for <$20 shipped.

[gagaliya]

Here's exactly what I got:

Azoo regulator from drsfostersmith.com
10# canister from aquariumplants.com
brass check valve from greenleafaquariums.com
10 feet co2 resistant tube from greenleafaquariums.com
spiro co2 diffuser from greenleafaquariums.com

The azoo regulator is pretty much plug n play but the instructions are terrible. So a few tips in case you are not familiar:

1) dont forget to put ONE washer (included with the azoo) between the regulator and canister before screw it on
2) you MUST use a wrench to tighten as much as possible
3) then hook up the diffusers etc, and just open the canister wheel, plug in the regulator, and adjust the bubble count to desired.

One thing though i would probably put a black background for the tank, since you have everything in already, can just paint/cover from the outside. It would hide all your wires/pipes etc by blending them in, and would give the plants much more contrast. Anyway just some aesthetics to think about.

[gagaliya]

personally, I think a drop checker is far more important than a diffuser. since you're already gonna be running a canister filter, that diffuses it perfectly. I certainly wouldn't call a drop checker an 'extra.' I tried to get going without one and quickly realized I had NO idea where my levels were at. Once I got one, I realized I was running it wayyyyyy low and gradually had to crank it up and up and up to get it to 20-30ppm. I got the checker and fluid (enough for a couple years at least) on ebay for <$20 shipped.

there are no drop checkers that give accurate ph/co2 concentration, it's a very ball park indication. And ph swing(lights on vs off) from co2 injection will not affect the fish, as long as the co2 concentration in the tank is not extreme.

drop checker is not useful imo unless for the coolness factor.

[FISHSHROD]

there are no drop checkers that give accurate ph/co2 concentration, it's a very ball park indication. And ph swing(lights on vs off) from co2 injection will not affect the fish, as long as the co2 concentration in the tank is not extreme.

drop checker is not useful imo unless for the coolness factor.


How do you figure your right bubble count , how do you know if you are injecting enough or not enough ?

[angyles]

there are no drop checkers that give accurate ph/co2 concentration, it's a very ball park indication. And ph swing(lights on vs off) from co2 injection will not affect the fish, as long as the co2 concentration in the tank is not extreme.

drop checker is not useful imo unless for the coolness factor.

exactly. A ballpark indication. When you're wandering out lost in the woods, it's nice to know what direction you're supposed to be heading. Before I got mine, I had no clue how much I should be putting in. You can say X bps, but I honestly find that completely useless. How well is it diffused. What fluid is in your bubble counter. By the time I got mine dialed in right, it's basically a flow so fast I can't count if I tried. So yeah, a ballpark indicator was very helpful in getting that setup and gaining the most benefit from my setup.

[mott]

I would recommend using DC for people new to pressurized setups! Being in the "Ballpark" is a good thing. Last thing you want is a tank full o dead fish!

[gagaliya]

How do you figure your right bubble count , how do you know if you are injecting enough or not enough ?

very simple, if i dont have algae and the plants are healthy and growing, it's the right bubble count. If i see algae, i adjust accordingly (usually increasing co2 as i like to start on the conservative side).

It's really not difficult to find a balance in freshwater, just 3 components: light + co2 + nutrients. Light is usually a constant for me around 3wpg, so comes down to adjusting co2 and nutrient (3x macro + micro + iron). Rex has a very handy algae guide to help you pinpoint the imbalance: http://www.rexgrigg.com/Algae1.html

I dont need some color chemical (that looks green, but also blue, or was that yellow?) to tell me how to adjust my co2. Not to mention it's 1 extra piece of artificial item in your tank to look after...

To clarify not saying those who are using it are wrong, if it works for you great, whatever get the tank to work! But for myself, i think it's useless and dont need it.

[jimangie1973]

Thanks for the tips to instll the Azoo.

Couldn't I tell if i'm in the ballpark by doing a simple pH test. I know my water KH=3 and pH=7.6, with no CO2 injected. I could even measure KH with a larger sample of water to get a more accurate measurement assuming the test solution was made correctly. Depending on the pH difference pre to post injection, I could then figure out the CO2 levels in the water.

Is there any reason this wouldn't work?

Jim

[angyles]

That's fine. People do use that method and there are charts out there to help. It's a lot more work then looking at a color, and open for error due to buffers that may be in your water.

[jimangie1973]

That's fine. People do use that method and there are charts out there to help. It's a lot more work then looking at a color, and open for error due to buffers that may be in your water.

Good point about the buffers. I tested phosphate several years ago and there was none but I will go get a test kit and verify. My pH/KH numbers indicate there is no phosphate but I'll be sure.

Here's a link to a great description:

http://csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_co2chart.htm

[gagaliya]

Thanks for the tips to instll the Azoo.

Couldn't I tell if i'm in the ballpark by doing a simple pH test. I know my water KH=3 and pH=7.6, with no CO2 injected. I could even measure KH with a larger sample of water to get a more accurate measurement assuming the test solution was made correctly. Depending on the pH difference pre to post injection, I could then figure out the CO2 levels in the water.

Is there any reason this wouldn't work?

Jim

yes that's what i do.

[FISHSHROD]

very simple, if i dont have algae and the plants are healthy and growing, it's the right bubble count. If i see algae, i adjust accordingly (usually increasing co2 as i like to start on the conservative side).

It's really not difficult to find a balance in freshwater, just 3 components: light + co2 + nutrients. Light is usually a constant for me around 3wpg, so comes down to adjusting co2 and nutrient (3x macro + micro + iron). Rex has a very handy algae guide to help you pinpoint the imbalance: http://www.rexgrigg.com/Algae1.html

I dont need some color chemical (that looks green, but also blue, or was that yellow?) to tell me how to adjust my co2. Not to mention it's 1 extra piece of artificial item in your tank to look after...

To clarify not saying those who are using it are wrong, if it works for you great, whatever get the tank to work! But for myself, i think it's useless and dont need it.


Thanks for the explanation .:thumbsup:

[jimangie1973]

Hey, I've received all the CO2 items and have the cylinder filled. I hooked up the regulator and have check valve and diffuser attached.

I have the Spiro 900 diffuser shown at the bottom of this link:

http://www.greenleafaquariums.com/co2-diffusers.html

The diffuser says it has a built in bubble counter but I'm confused at how it works. How is the diffuser supposed to be positioned, CO2 input on top? If this way, the CO2 fills the diffuser and no bubble count can be seen. This is probably a very stupid question.

Also, I'm seeing 50 psi at my low pressure guage. Does this need adjustment?

Thanks,
Jim

[jimangie1973]

Ok, it's now obvious to me that the diffuser plate is to be positioned on top. I'm still trying to figure out the bubble counter.

[jimangie1973]

I figured it out. I had to suck out the air from the chamber. All is well now. My low side pressure is now 40 psi with it running.

[gagaliya]

left display 30-40 psi (this is the pressure going into your tank).
right display 900-1000 psi for filled tank (this is how much co2 you have left in the tank).

Dont rely on the gauges too much, just use it as an approx.

Use a needle syringe and fill the inside of the spiro with water, hook it up with the white plate facing up. Turn on the regulator, soon you will see tiny co2 bubbles going out. The twist inside where the bubbles go round n round is the built in bubble counter and you can use it to measure how many bubble/sec.

You can hook up the solenoid to a timer such as the coralife one, so when light is off, it turns off the co2 as well to save some co2. I just have it running 24/7 though.

also try to place the spiro at the bottom of the tank, under the filter's output bar, so it will blow the bubbles around for better absorption.

[gagaliya]

there are no drop checkers that give accurate ph/co2 concentration, it's a very ball park indication. And ph swing(lights on vs off) from co2 injection will not affect the fish, as long as the co2 concentration in the tank is not extreme.

drop checker is not useful imo unless for the coolness factor.

I budgeted $1k for the biocube and the actual came out to be much less. So going against my own advice, i figured i did try out the drop checker as a novelty since green leaf has one that looked pretty interesting as it has the reference solution built-in next to it, so at least you have some frame of reference in comparison and not complete guess work.

Anway the top chamber is the co2 indicator, the bottom chamber is the reference indicator. And according to the instruction:

1) If co2 indicator is more blue than reference=add more co2
2) if co2 indicator is more yellow than reference=add less co2
3) if co2 indicator=reference color you are supposely at balance (i assume the reference is calibrated to 30ppm)

So here's what my looked like after a night, anyone want to guess what light green means lol? it's never that simple isnt it /sigh

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/attachment.php?attachmentid=10695&d=1261760842

[nova60]

Is a drop checker the same as a bubble counter?

[gagaliya]

no, bubble counter is installed on the outside of the tank usually to count the # of co2 bubbles - rate of co2.

dropchecker checks for the co2 concentration in the tank by looking at the color

[angyles]

I'd say it looks good. Maybe a litlte more yellow than the sample color, but hard to tell with a green leaf right behind that (making it a little darker). You're right in the zone...piece of cake!

[odinthejd]

nice stuff