Is my cycle going ok ?

[Gee]

Here i am again, i just want to be sure evrything is going fine,

i just think its too long ?

The two coktail shrimps are completely gone now.

Here is the complete, from the begining, water test result

23 decembre 2003 : debut du cycle, 2 crevettes.
test eau :
- ph 7.6
- sg 1.023
- amoniaque 0.6
- nitrite 0
- nitrate 0
- temp 82 (light on)


25 decembre 2003:
test d'eau :
- ph 7.6
- sg 1.023 - 1.024
- amoniaque 1.2 - 2.4
- nitrite 0.1
- nitrate 5
- temp 81 (light on)
rem : odeur ..........


30 decembre 2003 :
test d'eau :
- ph 7.6
- sg 1.024
- amoniaque off
- nitrite 0.1
- nitrate 5
- temp 82 (light on)


3 janvier 2003 :
test d'eau :
- ph 7.6
- sg 1.025
- amoniaque way off
- nitrite 0.1
- nitrate 5
- temp 82 (light on)


8 janvier 2003 :
test d'eau :
- ph 7.6
- sg 1.025
- amoniaque way off
- nitrite 0.2
- nitrate 5-10
- temp 82 (light on)


16 janvier 2003 :
test d'eau :
- ph 7.6
- sg 1.025
- amoniaque still way off
- nitrite 0.1
- nitrate 5
- temp 80 (light off)

[DEmigh]

<in worst fake French accent>

Zee cycle, she ees doing jus' fine :p

---------------------------------------

When the "ammoniaque" comes back down out of the stratosphere, that will signal the end of the first stage :D

By the time the ammonia readings come down, the nitrite should be off the scale. When that starts to come down, your cycle will be nearing completion.

Sometimes the cycle runs 6+ weeks, so I don't think you're "behind schedule" at all.
:cool:

[Gee]

Zank you velly mutche !

[Kurt]

ALARM PH 7.6???? Are you sure? 7.6 is too low it should be around 8.2 to 8.5. I am not educated on the Ph side of things but I do test PH in my tanks because it is important , mine has always been very close to 8.4 . So we need someone to talk about PH here.

[DEmigh]

Hey Kurt, good observation. I wasn't even looking at pH.

I'm cycling in a DSB right now, and my pH is bouncing along at about 7.7 also. I think the bio-chemistry associated with deliberate contamination (the whole rotting shrimp thing) pulls the pH down.

"Old tank syndrome" is partly caused by a buildup of nitrogenous wastes and one of the symptoms is falling pH.

But still, will one of the more experienced/knowledgeable members please comment?

[CHughes]

I'm no expert, but it seems like Gee started with a pH of 7.6. I find that strange unless he was using tap water. It's also strange that the NH3 is consistantly off the scale, yet the NO2 is dropping.

Gee, you may want to do some partial water changes using R/O water as your base with Instant Ocean. Failing that you may need a dKH buffer to help raise the pH.

Chris

[Gee]

Well i was told here that tap water was not "that" bad to cycle the tank, all my top off have been done with ro/di water,

Iwas told that my ph was acceptable for fowlr.

And the only thing i find strange is that i am 3 weeks into the cycle and i didnt have hitrite or nitrate spikes yet, only amonia is sky high ! how long does it takes for the other bacteria to attack the amonia ?

Thanks

[CHughes]

Gee:
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner, It's fish tank maintainence day here!

I checked my records on my tank cycle and it took 1 month exactly to cycle the tank. I started with tap water as well, but it's naturally at a pH of 8.4 here. The R/O and di water have a very low pH, so aren't building it up. I still think you should do about 20% water changes with mixed salt - R/O to pick it up.

My cycle ran like this:
Set up on Dec 9th

Dec 13:
pH 8.4, NO2: Trace, AM: 6.10, SPG: 1.024

Dec 20:
pH 8.4, NO2: 110+, NO3: 5.00, AM: 0.3, SPG: 1.026

Dec 26:
pH: 8.4, NO2: 110+, NO3: 2.00, AM: 0.1, SPG: 1.024

Jan 2:
pH: 8.4, NO2: 0.0, NO3: 10, AM: 0.1, SPG: 1.022

Jan 10: pH: 8.3, NO2: 0.0, NO3: 10, AM: 0, SPG: 1.024

Have you added any LR? I ask this as it may be the source of the AM spike from dye off and stalling the cycle a bit.

Chris

[Gee]

No i dont have live rock yet, but i have about 20 pounds of base rock and 50 pounds of play sand.

I cycled the tank with 2 cocktail shrimp, maybe thats the cause of high amonia, two shrimps for a 20 gallon was "alot" i think ?

Thank you for your help, i think i am just in a hurry to see the end of the cycle, i tought i wasnt in a rush but this thing is like a drug !!!!

p.s. i was told to not do water change while cycling, just top off, is that correct ?

[CHughes]

Gee:
That's probably the reason, as you suggested. Be patient, just don't add LR till you AM and NO2 is at 0 values, otherwise you'll fry any critters on the rock.

The water changes were recommended to me by OrionGirl, who I trust. You will need to raise your pH eventually, so now is the time to do it before you add any inhabitants. Do the water changes weekly. It's better than adding additives later and you'll have you tank stocked before no time.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this (Ben, OrionGirl, Morganda, etc...)

Chris

[Gealcath]

Whoever said 7.6 is fine for FOWLR didnt know what they where talking about, also adding calcium based rocks like Aragonite and Tufa will help buffer the water at 8.3

[Gee]

Originally posted by Gealcath
Whoever said 7.6 is fine for FOWLR didnt know what they where talking about, also adding calcium based rocks like Aragonite and Tufa will help buffer the water at 8.3


I already have 2 big tufa rocks and one big lava.

And for the PH i think its Orion Girl who told is was acceptable for the cycle, so i think she knows what she is talking about .

[Gee]

Here is the quote from oriongirl from my other thread

"I wouldn't worry about the pH in a cycling tank--the biological processes make pH flustuate a bit during cycling. Before adding critters, you will want it to stabilize around 8.3, but it can wait until after the cycle."

[wayne]

Surely if you're going to be using live rock you'll be introducing a whole bunch of bacteria anyway, so why even bother cycling? Just rely on either curing the live rock if uncured, or any mild die off if buying cured.
But I really don't see the point of cycling, then adding the rock?

[DEmigh]

Originally posted by wayne
[...] I really don't see the point of cycling, then adding the rock [...]

Call me nuts :p but:

I have come to regard liverock as a living thing. Putting a large quantity of liverock in an uncycled tank would be IMO the same as putting a whole bunch of fish in an uncycled tank.

I think the distinction we make between "cured" and "uncured" liverock is telling. The stuff is very sensitive, and uncured liverock has had enough trauma that it produces huge ammonia spikes when introduced to a tank. Subjecting cured liverock to those ammonia spikes can kill so many of the things that make liverock interesting/useful/beautiful that I wouldn't risk it.

[Gee]

Hi guys,

I really agree with DEmigh about the live rock debate, i dont want to risk killing some sort of life form present on the live rocks i will be adding. The live rocks up here in Canada a really expensive, so if i can save as much life as i can , i will surely do.

Today is the 20 th and i have tested the water again, all the same as the 16 th, i still have some little rotten shrimp chunk (1/8 of an inch) maybe thats is the reason my amonia is slow to be overtaken by nitrites ? should i clean it as much as possible ?
i even did a 15 % water change on the 18 th to bring down the amonia , no luck there i guess.

I always here you guys talking about a turkey bastar, what is that in french, or if you could explain what is it and where to find it , it would be great help for me. I thought it was a cooking tool, so i looked around at Wal Mart and was trying to find something written in english on packages, but i got no luck.

Thanks again !:)

[Dale W.]

A turkey baster looks like a really big syringe that has a squeeze bulb on the end for sucking up juices when cooking and basting whatever you are cooking.

OG is correct in that you dont have to worry about the PH to much durring the cycle as long as it is within reason. The PH will drop a bit through cycling and I am guessing that yours will end up around 7.9 when you are done. You should be up around 8.3 or so.

I am also an advocate for not cycling a tank with LR for the very reason that has been stated here in earlier posts. Live rock is just that, "LIVE" rock. I actually prefer to use uncured rock as much as posible to retain as much life as posible that comes on the rock.

The one good thing about your cycle and the fact that you used 2 shrimp in a 20 g is that you will have a very strong cycle when you are done. At this point don't worry about doing any water changes on your tank as this will partially defeat the purpose of the cycle. 6 weeks is not uncommon at all for a tank to cycle, especially when it is a heavy cycle. Be patiant. :)

[wayne]

I see your arguments, and actually kind of agree on not wanting to kill the rock. What I like to do is add (preferably cured) rock to a tank , and allow hopefully the minimum of dieoff to occur, and then slowly up the levels of organic pollution from nothing to whatever by stocking very slowly rather than doing an upfront cycle with shrimp or whatever. I think it's just a difference in philosophy.

[Gee]

cycle is over !!!!

Now let the fun begin !:D

[Makaiveli]

get some Kent Marine Superbuffer. It works great.