liquid pond fertilizer & nitrates

[kaslkaos]

I finally found a nitrate test, and the reading is 0, very 0.
Can I use a liquid fertilizer for a pond, and just scale down the dosage for 20 gallons? (I allready have the pond fertilizer at home)
Total Nitrogen (N) .25%
Potash 5.25%
Sulfur .014%
Boron.... okay, I won't list all the traces.

[happychem]

Is that the Laguna pond water treatment stuff. If it is, then I've got some too. I haven't used much yet, but didn't see any problems when I did. But there are certainly people out there better equipped to anwser this than me.

The dosage suggests 50mL per 1000L, so I figure that that's about 1 mL per 5 gallons.

[kaslkaos]

Yes, it just so happens to be Laguna. I can't find anything made for aquariums that includes nitrate. Fish books say it's a bad thing, but apparently the plants need it.

[happychem]

They definitely need it, but you probably don't need to adda any, your fish will produce enough nitrogen, most likely. So it's not really a "bad thing" just not likely to be limiting, so you don't want to add extra. Unless, of course, it is the limiting nutrient.

[djlen]

Plants need nitrogen. If your tests are showing readings of zero the plants are not getting enough unless the fish are providing just enough to support the need for this element.
How much of each element, plants need depends on many variables including, for example, light. More light creates faster growth and higher usage of various nutrients. So more may be needed.
If your plants are happy and growing well under their present circumstances, don't change anything. It is probably balanced.
Once you change one parameter, you disrupt that balance and this has the potential to cause problems.

Len

[kaslkaos]

Everything's out of balance; plants that barely grow, and lots of string algae. I was doing everything wrong, now I'm trying to change that.
I'll give the pond fert a try; my tank stand already 'looks like a drugstore', (husband says), so if I already have a product on hand, that would be great. I'm going to add a bunch of anacharis too, as I think my previous bunch died of hard water (Gh 11), which I'm bringing down with water changes of softened water (potassium, not salt).

[djlen]

How much light do you have over the aquarium?
Tell us about your filtration, substrate, fish load and what, if anything you have been dosing out of your 'drugstore'.

I am not a big fan of any combo ferts that are not made expressly for aquariums. Yours may be just fine and it may not. It's a 'pond' fertilizer.
Getting the correct elements for your tank is not an expensive proposition and balancing it is not difficult as long as you have some patience.
Do a 50% water change(with tap water conditioner) and get back to us with the info. on your tank and we'll go from there.

Len

[kaslkaos]

Thanks, I already scrapped the pond fert idea, as I found a fert (kent gro) at big al's that has nitrates, so I think I'm armed well. The pond stuff will be reserved for the pond.
As for advice for more advice for me (and boy, I do need it), I already started a really general 'help' type thread, so I'll link it, so I don't clutter up the forum. It has more history on what I've done or not done.
Advice is very much appreciated. (already mentally counting if I have enough buckets for a 50% water change).
"I want to do better" thread (http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23670)

[djlen]

I think the advice annona gave you in the first thread was excellent. Don't know what I can add to that.
Just to reiterate:
With a 3watts/gal. you will definitely need to try to keep your CO2ppm as close to 25 as possible with your injection.
Don't use any chemicals to clear algae. Use elbow grease and water changes. BTW, a python would make the process of water changes much more simplified for you, and weekly water changes will do wonders for your tank.
Test kits needed are pH,kH,nitrates,and phosphates and you need to test both tank and tap water to see what you've got and what your tap is giving you. Once you know what you're getting, you can then decide what you need to add to maintain plants which will reduce algae.
I didn't see anything about filtration in your tank specs. What are you using?
As previously stated, you want to balance your tank's nutrient level. I don't know of ANY 'all purpose/all in one' fertilizer that can tailor it's ingredients to the special needs of an individual tank. Your issues come from a lot of light(3watts/gal.). If you had 1.5 or 2.0 you might be able to get by with an all in one fertilizer. It is my opinion that with that much light, you can't.
If you look at the sticky at the top of the plant page on nutrients you will see posts which tell how to obtain the needed individual nutrients locally and cheaply.
Very simple....N, P, K and Traces. Clean water. CO2.
Then you can throw out the 'drugstore' stuff and grow plants naturally.
You're probably sick of testing and posting, but we can't give advice on dosing without knowing what you've got. So one more time....
test and post your latest nitrate and phosphate levels both tank and tap. pH and kH as well. That will tell us how well your CO2 is working for you.

Len

[plantbrain]

Main thing is that "Total nitrogen" issue.
This means NH4 and uera, not just NO3 which is all anyone should be adding from a fert.

We all add some NH4 via fish waste and that's what should supply that source of nitrogen only.

I can make some very cheap fertilizer if I use NH4/Urea based forms along with NO3.

That's all most nurseries and ag places sell.

Aquariums need NO3 only.

The pond folks often don't make or realize this distinction and suggest the NH4/Urea forms.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[kaslkaos]

I am absolutely NOT tired of doing tests. It's actually quite fun. I am tired of my 'uninformed shopping' resulting in a drugstore.
I'm pleasantly surprised at how patient and helpful everyone is here, and hoping you'll help me shop right.
Let me get this straight.

MY SHOPPING LIST
I need a Kh test kit (at Big Al's it's bundled with a Gh test kit that I already have)
I need P, Phosphate test kit
I need some sort of root tabs, Flourish Root Tabs (if I can find them), Any alternatives?
Possibly need a 'python'? Is that what I ask for? I'm guessing it's a hose with a very long siphon. Where would I buy this. My tank is in the basement as far away from the tap as you can imagine.

Anything I should add to my shopping list?

I have (amoung many other things), test kits for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Gh, and Ph (high & low)
I have Kent Trace/ & Kent Pro Gro (this is the one with the nitrate)
I have a water softener that uses potassium, and access (upstairs, fish are downstairs) to unsoftened water from the kitchen sink
I bought a CO2 diffuser (hang on canister kind), but I won't use it until I get things straight.
I have 6 10ltr containers for storing/aging tap water (20 gallons = 175ltr)
I printed up the Fert faq (reading on line just didn't cut it for me) and have a few questions.
Where do I get Spectracide Stump Remover or Salt Petre?
I think I can guess, from the name, that Fleet Enema comes from a drugstore.

Big Al's is the only aquarium/fish store that I know of, local stores don't have much for planted tanks, except PetSmart, which is limited compared to Big Al's but easier to get to. Are there any Canadian on-line stores?

PS. I've already cut my lights back to 8hrs/day 40 watts

[djlen]

You can get the Python from Big Al's as well. It comes in different hose lengths so measure and order. You won't need to age water once you get the python, but you will need tap water conditioner to add to the tap water as it enters the tank to detoxify it. If you don't have that already, you'll need it.
The kH test kit is the biggie to make sure your water will support CO2. It needs to be 3.0 or higher.
And the P test kit is on the way. Unless I missed something, you're all set, or soon will be.

What you want is KNO3 which is the ingredient in Salt Petre(some pharmacies have it) and also in Spectracide Stump Remover(stores like Lowes and Home Depot carry it in the garden department). Any product will do as long as it's 100% KNO3.
You can also get it on line from places that sell fuel for model rockets that hobbiests fly. Or possibly from agricultural supply houses. You can also buy Flourish Nitrogen by SeaChem if you can't find it in the products listed. It's a bit more expensive that way, but you only have a 20 gal. so it wouldn't be that pricey.

I have this thing about root tabs........I despise them.......which probably irritates others on AC who use them. Can't help it.....I've heard too many horror stories from people using them and disturbing them and getting their contents into the water table. When that happens it can create chaos within an aquarium. If you chose to use them please don't tell me about it.
So MY answer is NO, you don't 'need' root tabs.

Did I mis-read it, or didn't you at one time have 60 watts over the tank? I noticed that you wrote '40 watts' at the end of your last post. 40 watts will settle things down for you until you get all your ducks in a row.

Len

[kaslkaos]

No, you didn't missread; up until Feb 10 or so, I had 60 watts, but was advised to cut back, so I have. I edited My Tank to reflect that, and added my filter type.
As for the root tabs, I'd be happy not to use them. They are expensive.
If you're using a python, how do get the temp just right? I'm still thinking I'd rather do 2 25% water changes, not quite the same, but then I can have the water sit to the right temp, and mix hard and soft water to water gh is recommended.
And, yup, I do have dechlor - my fish are still alive...
:)
Thanks again

[djlen]

I would use that lighting until you get the tank straightened out.
It will make things easier for you.
The python hooks to the faucet and has a piece on the bottom that can be either engaged or disengaged depending on whether you are siphoning or filling. When it's in the siphon mode(disengaged) and you turn on the tap, the water from the tap runs right through and down the drain. By holding a tank thermometer under the water coming out the bottom you can adjust the temp of the tap water and when satisfied you just engage the bottom piece and the water stops going down the drain and flows down the tube and into the tank. I check a couple of times while re-filling to make sure it's close in temp to the tank's temp. Very easy.
How you do your water changes isn't as important as making sure you do them. 'Clean' water cures a multitude of ills in an aquarium.

Edit: Here's a good location for some of the items you may be looking for (ie. KNO3) and not finding:
http://www.gregwatson.com/

Look on the left and click on PMDD Store for a list of what's available. I like the prices.

Len