couple questions on plants...

G

GobyGuy5

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Nov 28, 2002
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It's been awhile since I've been here, and I'm glad to see everythings going nice with AC...

Anyways, I have a few questions that pertain to plants:

1. In the Fertilizer FAQ it says to dose Epsom Salt for magnesium, however I didn't catch it saying anything about dosing, what's good for a 15 gallon?

2. My water goes through a water softener, and ends up with a pH of about 8-8.5 and a kh of around 20. I know the pH is a little high for my plants, and I wanted to adjust it down to around 7. I have a Seachem 'pH 7.0 Neutral Regulator' on hand that contains phosphate. Would this product add too much phospate to my water and cause algae blooms, or could it be used successfully as a pH adjuster and source of phosphate for my plants?

3. One more thing, I have a banana plant that's out of bananas...does that mean it's time to get a new one?

I'm going shopping later today and would appreciate some quick replys if possible.

I'm also posting my complete tank specs and fertilizing schedule in order to help you guys better answer my questions, thanks in advance, AC is awesome! :)

Equipment/Tank:
15 Gallon (24X12X12)
Penguin 125 HOB filter w/Biowheel
55 watts of PC lighting
CO2 Via sugar fermentation
Laterite added to Gravel

Fish:
2 Marbled Hatchets
1 Upside-Down Catfish
1 Ottocinclus (the others all died during acclimation)
2 Platys
2 Bolivan Rams

Plants:
Jungle Vallisneria
Ozelot Sword
Hygrophilia
Banana Plant
Java Fern
Dwarf Sag.

Fertilizing:
Flourish Excel-1.5 ml daily, and 5 ml once a week
Flourish Trace-4 ml twice a week
Flourish Phosphorus-0.5 ml twice a week
Flourish Potassium-1.5 ml twice a week
Flourish Iron-0.5 ml once a week
 
I dose 1tsp. of MgSO4 after water change(once a week) in my 55s and in my 40gal., but I have very soft water. If you use it, I would use it sparingly in your 15. You may not need it.
Try to get a print out from your water company and find out what they are supplying you with, mineral-wise.

Are your parameters 8-8.5pH and 20kH out of the tap, or in the tank? Just trying to figure out whether the DIY CO2 is giving you those numbers, or if it's your starting point.
If it's your tank measurement, your CO2ppm is 2-6 which is way too low, especially with the wattage of CF you are supplying.
Lose the bio-wheel(it is wasting your CO2) and up the production of CO2. This will bring your pH down quite a bit. You want to shoot for a pH of 7.4, which will give you 24ppm.
I, personally am not a fan of any kind of pH "regulator/adjuster" so I wouldn't use that additive. Others may dissagree.....just my thing.
As to the fertilization schedule; I don't use it, but it is my understanding that Flourite Excel works best when the directions are followed to the letter. So if that's what they recommend, great.
You have some nice nutrient hogs in there so:
I would up the traces to 5mls., twice a week.
Up the P to closer to 1.0 and try to keep it there.
I would go with 3mls. K after water change only.
Get some KNO3 and dose it for N to attain 5-10ppm. This will also supply some extra K as well as the N. You have a relatively small fish load and probably should supplement N unless you get a bunch out of the tap. Again 5-10ppm is the key.
Fe is only going to stay in the tank for a day or so, so the little you are using is really a non-factor for the most part.

Len
 
Try to get a print out from your water company and find out what they are supplying you with, mineral-wise.
Click to expand...

My water is good old Indiana well water, so since I’m clueless, it’s probably better to leave it alone, right?

Are your parameters 8-8.5pH and 20kH out of the tap, or in the tank? Just trying to figure out whether the DIY CO2 is giving you those numbers, or if it's your starting point.
Click to expand...

My water parameters are pH 8.0 and 20 kH out of the tap, and pH 8.5 and 14.5 kH in the tank.

If it's your tank measurement, your CO2ppm is 2-6 which is way too low, especially with the wattage of CF you are supplying.
Click to expand...

Do you mean replace my filter with a canister or just rip off the bio-wheel itself? So if I up my CO2 production it will lower my pH correct? The reason I ask is because my current CO2 setup, which is supposedly enough for 20 gallons, hasn’t altered my pH at all…but then again maybe my filter is the reason for this…

Up the P to closer to 1.0 and try to keep it there.
Click to expand...

Do you mean to maintain P at 1.0 ppm or dose 1.0 ml of Flourish Phosphorus twice a week?

Get some KNO3 and dose it for N to attain 5-10ppm. This will also supply some extra K as well as the N. You have a relatively small fish load and probably should supplement N unless you get a bunch out of the tap. Again 5-10ppm is the key.
Click to expand...

Hmm…you said I should add some KNO3 because I don’t have many fish…does that mean that instead of dosing KNO3 I could just up the K dosing and add some more fish!?! I’d jump at that opportunity!

Fe is only going to stay in the tank for a day or so, so the little you are using is really a non-factor for the most part.
Click to expand...

Are you saying I should increase the Fe dosage or that it really doesn’t matter in my tank?

Thanks for the speedy reply, sorry that I have questions upon my questions…:rolleyes:

P.S. do you know the answer to my banana plant question?
 
No answer for the banana plant......I have limited experience with them.

You want the printout to find out if you are getting an excess of anything in your water supply. Nitrates, for example. Although you can test easily enough for that.

With those tank measurements you are holding 2ppm/CO2. You need to raise it and can do so with CO2(which also lowers the pH).
CO2 absorption is also affected by water disturbance coming from the bio-wheel. A cannister would alleviate the problem entirely, but depending on your cash flow, you can also just remove the bio-wheel for the time being and probably see an immediate improvement in CO2ppm. In short, if you've got the bucks, get a cannister.
For one reason or other, the injection system you are currently using is not getting the job done. I would first remove the bio-wheel and test your kH and pH. I doubt that this will give you the 24ppm you ideally want, but will improve the situation to some degree.
Increase your dosage of P until you see a constant factor of between .5 and 1.0. Make small changes and keep testing.
I like your fish load and would dose a little KNO3 at a time to reach between 5-10 N. Have you tested for N? If so, what is the present number?
Fe should be dosed daily, IME. But not having access to your tank, I don't know whether you need to dose it at this time. I tweak dosages when the plants tell me they need more of one or another. You are getting some Fe in your Trace mix.
What I meant was that the little extra you are dosing is not going to affect anything at this time and may not be needed anyway.

Len
 
For one reason or other, the injection system you are currently using is not getting the job done. I would first remove the bio-wheel and test your kH and pH. I doubt that this will give you the 24ppm you ideally want, but will improve the situation to some degree..
Click to expand...

Okay, so I should remove the biowheel in the short-term and replace it with a canister in the long-term then…just before I do, do you think that removing my biowheel would kill my biofiltration? Isn’t it the power filter in general and the circulation it provides that is causing CO2 loss and not just the biowheel? Also, is there a limit to how much my CO2 injection will affect my pH and kH?

Increase your dosage of P until you see a constant factor of between .5 and 1.0. Make small changes and keep testing..
Click to expand...

I don’t have a test kit on hand, I’ll have to buy one…do you know about how much I should be adding based on that?

I like your fish load and would dose a little KNO3 at a time to reach between 5-10 N. Have you tested for N? If so, what is the present number?.
Click to expand...

15 ppm of Nitrate…and I’m going to do a water change today…

Fe should be dosed daily, IME. But not having access to your tank, I don't know whether you need to dose it at this time. I tweak dosages when the plants tell me they need more of one or another. You are getting some Fe in your Trace mix.
What I meant was that the little extra you are dosing is not going to affect anything at this time and may not be needed anyway..
Click to expand...

How do your plants tell you they need more Fe?

Thanks for your continued patience with my ignorance,
Goby
 
Removing the bio-wheel will not kill the bio filtration, but it will cut way down on the gassing off of the CO2 and improve absorption.
Yes, that type of filter, in general, is not conducive to good absorption and when you can, you should replace it with a cannister which, when the spray bars are lowered, will cause zero surface disturbance.
Your kH will not be affected by CO2 injection. The kH is the stabilizing force in your water and the pH drop is affected by the CO2, based on the amount of kH(buffer) your water has. A kH of 3-3.5 and above is generally accepted to be stable for CO2 injection. That is to say that the pH should not crash at that kH and above. Hope that answers that question. If not ask me another way......I'm a little dense.
I would not add P (Fleet Enema at your pharmacy) until you've tested for content. Some might suggest you do, but I'm a bit overly cautious that way. Let us know what your test results are and I'll tell you what to start with.
Have you tested your N out of the tap as well as the tank to see how much of that 15ppm is going into the tank from the tap?
This will tell you how much, if any, you will need to dose. Take a sample of tap water.....let is sit for 2 - 4 hours and test for N and when you get the phosphate tester it would be a good idea to do the same with that element.
Various plants respond to low levels of nutrients in different ways.
There are lots of sites that you can refer to that will get you started on recognizing nutrient deficiencies. Here's a good one:
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm

Glad to help......that's how we all learn.....someday you'll pass it along to someone else.

Len
 
First THANKS for the link, awesome, from it I gather I DO have an iron deficiency…

Just one more thing: on the filter, I gather that lowering the spray bar eliminates my CO2 problems, I happen to have an Emperor 280 on hand, and wonder if this could do the trick? (Provided that I turn the filter to a lower flow rating than 280 gph…)

Glad to see this thread is winding down,
Goby
 
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