Penguin Mini with UGF

[altse]

I just bought a 20 long setup with a penguin mini (used) and I have been reading as much as possible on here since then. I also have an UGF. I have my air pump hooked to a flat airstone just under the gravel.

I have read in many places that you are supposed to put an airstone in the tubes of the UGF to extract water through the UGF. Right now I have the Penguin attached to the UGF extracting water out of it. Is this detrimental?

I really don't know if this is common practice or if I should disconnect the mini from the UGF and put an airstone in there. What do the experienced ones think?

Thanks,
Mike

[daveedka]

Although the penguin mini will do the job with the UGF, it wouldn't be the best way to run one. I am a big fan of UGF's but they come with their own set of problems and difficulties. In a conventonal UGF (Your Set-up) you are drawing the water through the substrate out up through the pipes. The substrate will load up with debris very quickly, and can cause problems. My reccomendation would be this. Buy a small power head that can be put on the UGF in reverse, and put a sponge on the intake. The power head will push water down through the tube and up through the substrate. The bio-filter will be as good (some believe better) and the debris won't build up in your gravel. Keep the intake sponge clean, and you have great biological filtration without the worries of dirt build-up. This is commonly reffered to as RFUG (Reverse flow undergravel). Your current set-up with the mini really negates a big part of what the mini does. Because the mechanicle filter is mostly being done by the gravel, and the mini will only pick up the little bit that makes it through you substrate and up the lift tube. If you run your mini independantly, and especially if you run it in conjunction with reverse flow. The combination will do well. As much as I like UGF's, I never run any tank without at least two separate filters. As far as powerheads, I buy penguin but there are many good brands out there. just make sure they will work on a reverse flow set-up, and make sure you have a way to install a sponge on the intake so they don't push dirt under the plates. Good Luck. Sorry I'm so long winded.

[altse]

Thanks...I will be getting a reverse flow powerhead on the way home from work today. I dont have any fish in there yet and the tank has only been cycling for about 5 days so I don't think the gravel is going to be all too dirty.

Thanks for the info

[daveedka]

Good luck, let us know how it goes. Shouldn't be anything in your Gravel at all really.

[Hound]

Admitingly I'm not a fan of an UGF, but if your using one yes use a reverse flow. I'd almost think that the penguin would be pulling too much water thru the thing.

That being said cudos to you for wanting to properly cycling your tank. I thought I was going nuts reading about how many people start a new tank with 6 fish for cycling. Too cruel on the fish. That being said, what sort of fish are you looking to stock?

[altse]

My brother (who I bought the tank from) was going to give me 4 little firemouth cichlids. Right now, they are under an inch so I figure if I throw them in there with some other semi-aggressive fish that they will get along just fine. I'm still really looking to see what I am going to get for sure, but I am looking to keep the rest of my fish under 6" and semi aggressive. I was thinking about only taking 2 of the firemouths and then getting 4-10 small quick schooling fish. I figure if I put the schooling fish in when the firemouths are as small as they are now, that they will get along okay (plus any schooling fish that I get will be very fast and able to keep their distance.

I told my brother that if the firemouths are too mean to keep other fish that I will give them back.

I have also decided that I am going to order a different HOB filter cause the mini that I have is the model w/o biowheel and I really want that to keep the ammonia levels to a minimum and plan on stocking my tank with more than that can handle without some better bio-filtration.

[daveedka]

a couple of thoughts


I have also decided that I am going to order a different HOB filter cause the mini that I have is the model w/o biowheel and I really want that to keep the ammonia levels to a minimum and plan on stocking my tank with more than that can handle without some better bio-filtration.

Although I certainly believe that more fltration is better, remember the purpose of you RFUG, your substrate is a big bio-filter in this set-up, the sponge on the intake is a mechanicle filter as well as a bio-filter also. These are both adding a lot of filtration to your tank. IMO a mini is pretty small, but don't forget there is another large filter running on your tank. And you should account for it as part of your total filtration. RFUG's can take care of a tank by themselves (I don't reccomend this personally but they are capable) I'm not saying don't buy another filter but it seemed as if you weren't accounting for all of what you had.


they are under an inch so I figure if I throw them in there with some other semi-aggressive fish that they will get along just fine. I'm still really looking to see what I am going to get for sure, but I am looking to keep the rest of my fish under 6" and semi aggressive.

It does sound like you have put some thought into the firemouths, but I still thought I'd send this warning:
Be carefull, Firemouths IME are usually OK with other semi-aggressive fish, but this is a very small tank IMO for these fish and they will grow out very quickly. Many people claim that if these fish are crowded they won't estabilish territories and be mean but my Experience is otherwise. They tend to (IME) be more nasty when they are crowded. Go to an LFS sometime and watch a crowded firemouth tank for 20 minutes. even the little guys in the crowded tanks at an LFS usually have a very defined pecking order, and nip at each other constantly. any fish that is timid or weak won't be there the next time you visit. Just my thoughts. They are awsome fish and one of my favorites but they will get too big for a 20g very quickly. Does your brother have somewhere to keep them when they get to big?

[altse]

I dont think I'm even going to use the UGF, just because I would rather get a good HOB and not have to worry about the UGF maintainance (I have been hearing a lot of mixed things about them and nothing really all that great).

I am going to order the penguin 170 from Big Al's this week.

My brother has a 55 gal right now. He plans on getting 100-150 gal probably in the fall (we'll see if he follows through).

He has 2 full grown firemouths and 1 medium(3") juvenile with 5 very small(<1") juvenile's that the 2 large ones protect, they are also the parents of the medium and reject him from "their side" of the tank to protect the babies.

A few more he has: plecostomus, bala shark, a couple redtails. I think thats it.

He has got the option of just taking them to the lfs and trading them for food and filter elements, so he doesnt really need to give them to me. He said that he would give me all 5 little ones, but I think that if I take his offer, I will only take 2 so they dont overcrowd.

BTW, my nitrite and ammonia levels are starting to come down really nicely, so I think in the next few days I will be stocking my tank with a few fish:D .