Betta with fin rot (long)

[moboe]

I'm bravely making a plea for more advice about curing our betta of fin rot. I first will admit that I posted earlier this week about this, received some advice, read EVERY thread I could find even remotely related, did what I thought would be best (even though it went against some advice I received here) and the betta isn't better. So, for the wellbeing of my betta, I put my tail between my legs, lower my face in embarassment, and offer an update.

Our betta started showing signs of fin rot last Saturday, the same day we added 3 panda cories to his 6g tank. (Eclipse 6, with biowheel). Concerned about treating Red and not hurting the cories, we started using Fungus Cure (by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals) on Sunday, in the 6g, with the cories. I took the carbon/sponge out, left the biowheel in. I had done a 25% water change the day before (this tank had been running with the betta for a week before this, and so was not fully cycled, although ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels were manageable, and I'm willing to do water changes as necessary.)

By Tuesday, 48 hours later and when were were supposed to use another dose of Fungus Cure, one cory had died (we think he wasn't well from when we got him) the tank looked AWFUL (with no filtration, etc.) and Red's tail fin was much worse, and his dorsal fin was beginning to show signs of rot. I did a 50% water change, reinstalled the filter, and added Maracyn. (Maracyn says that if the carbon is older than 6 days, which ours was, it can be used.)

Wednesday, did another 50% water change, another dose of Maracyn. Cories thriving, Red no worse.

Thursday, did another 50% water change, another dose of Maracyn. Cories thriving, Red slightly worse. He has been eating well throughout, and although his activity is somewhat reduced, he still swims around, doesn't sit on the bottom, and has even flared a time or two.

Levels this morning before the above water change:
Ammonia between .5-1ppm
Nitrite .5ppm
Nitrate 5ppm

It appears that Maracyn has killed our bacteria in the filter. I'll keep doing the 50% water changes, even though it dilutes the Maracyn. I've read that dirty water contributes to Fin Rot, and so feel like the water changes are as important as the Maracyn.

BUT, Red's tail fin is almost completely gone...just shreds remain. His dorsal is about half gone. His bottom fin (anus fin?) is completely uneffected. He eats well.

What should we do? We'll continue the Maracyn for 2 more days (5 day treatment period). Should we do another 5 days after that? Should we switch to Maracyn 2? Should we switch to Jungle Fungus Eliminator (what we wanted to use in the first place, but have only recently tracked it down)? Will the rot continue onto his body? If we switch medicine, should we take the filter out again, and get dirty water? Should be remove the cories, who seem to be doing so well that we're afraid to rock the boat?

Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to provide as much information as possible, in hopes that someone(s) will know if we've done all we can, should do more, should do something different, etc.

Many thanks.

Margaret

[Celura]

This is one thing I have done tons and tons of research on.

You need to get him quarantined into his own bowl. Even if it's a little $5 1g bowl, I believe it's absolutely necessary. You need to worry about treating him and him alone, as the medication will be more effective in an unfiltered environment.

When you move him, put him in 100% fresh water. If it's tap water, treat it with ammonia and chlorine removers such as Amquel and NovAqua. No traces of any ammonia or nitrates/nitrites should be present. These all need to be 0ppm. Make sure the temp stays in the mid to high 70's or above. Add a little aquarium salt to the water.

Try Maroxy combined with Maracyn or Maracyn II, all made by Mardel. If you don't see improvement, try Jungle Fungus Eliminator by Jungle Labs. NOT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.

Treat him quickly, time is of the essence. Let us know how he does.

[moboe]

Jenny, thanks so much for your help.

I'll move him to a 1g tonight. I'll fill it with fresh tap water, treated for chlorine. I have Stress Coat and BioCoat. I've been using each. Are either of those a suitable substitute for AmQuel and/or NovAqua?

The 1g has an ugf. Should I run the air pump at all, or just leave the water still?

It has no heater, but does have an incancescent light, so that should help add heat.

I'll get some aquarium salt asap.

Regarding the medication...
Do you mean I should use Maroxy and Maracyn OR Maroxy and Maracyn II, or do you mean I should use Maroxy and Maracyn OR Maracyn II by itself? And, should I start a new 5 day treatment, or should I finish off the Maracyn for 2 more days before adding another medicine? And, should I switch to Fungus Eliminator ONLY if after 5 days the above treatment doesn't work?

What about water changes in the 1g? Should I do them? If so, how much, how often?

Sorry for all the questions, but I want to make sure I get it right this time.

Thanks again.

Margaret
Try Maroxy combined with Maracyn or Maracyn II, all made by Mardel. If you don't see improvement, try Jungle Fungus Eliminator by Jungle Labs. NOT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.

[Celura]

I would only use NovAqua and Amquel, or another similar product like Prime. Those are proven to remove ammonia and chlorine. You can get smaller bottles at the LFS for little money. I add 5 drops of each per gallon of water.

I would recommend removing all contents of the 1g, all gravel, plants, filter, decor, etc. Just a bare bowl at this juncture would be best with no filtration. Bettas breathe from the top, so he doesn't need the air pump.

For one gallon of water, I would add a teaspoon of aquarium salt. Make sure it's not marine or table salt. It will say on the box, and it's inexpensive.

The light will be a great source of heat. You can also keep him in a warmer location (such as the bathroom) and make sure he's not near a draft if you plan to leave the tank without a lid.

Here's the combo:

Maroxy & Maracyn
OR
Maroxy & Maracyn II
OR
Jungle Fungus Eliminator

I have heard great things about Jungle Products from many Betta keepers. Why not give that a shot first and let us know how he does. :)

[moboe]

Thanks, Jenny, for the information.

Should I start with the new medicine immediately (without finishing up the 5 days with maracyn)
and
How often should I change the water in the 1g, and how often?

I really appreciate your help with this. I'll keep you posted on his progress.

Margaret

[Celura]

I would personally go ahead and start him on the Jungle Fungus Eliminator and forgo the Maracyn by itself at this point. The main thing is getting him into clean water.

I would read the directions on the bottle of JFE and see if it says not to change the water while he's being medicated, as some do. I haven't used it, therefore I couldn't tell you if it does. If it doesn't, I would change 50% of his water every two days.

I hope you find this helpful. :)

[moboe]

Thanks, Jenny. I find it very helpful, and I'll be off to the LFS to get the JFE and salt tonight. Amquel and Novaqua too. Crossing my fingers that it isn't too late to help Red.

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.

Margaret

[johnnyxxl]

I am sorry to hear of your problem with tail rot on your betta hope you save him.

[moboe]

Thanks, Johnnyxxl, for your thoughts. Red is an amazing little betta, the way he has held up through all this! We're crossing our fingers for him.

I've moved Red into a 1g, with no filter, decor, gravel, etc. Just fresh water, treated with Novaqua and Amquel and 1 tsp. salt. The lfs was out of Fungus Eliminator (!) so I picked up Maroxy, and have added 1/16 tsp (the best I could figure out as a dose for 1g) and Maracyn. As per his usual sweet self, Red readily ate the 3 food pellets I put in his new home for him. Now he's been slowly moving around, checking out the new digs.

I'm going to another lfs tomorrow morning to check for Fungus Eliminator. If they have it, I was going to start him on it right away...probably right after a water change (50%, 100%?), to get rid of the existing meds. Any ideas if this sounds right? The Maroxy/Maracyn say water changes aren't required if water quality is good. I'll change it after 2 days, like Jenny said, if I stay with this treatment and don't switch to JFE.

Thanks again, Jenny, for all your help and encouragement. Here's hoping we haven't done the right thing for him, too late.

[moboe]

A couple more things...

I first noticed it this morning, and tonight in his hospital tank can see it more clearly...Red's right pectoral fin has a small, round white dot on it. It appears to protrude out on both sides of the fin...like a sphere with the equator being his fin. Another sort of fungus?

When I do water changes, should I add more salt, too? ie. 50% water change, 50% salt?

Thank you!

[moboe]

Red update...
Red's activity has definitely picked up today. He is swimming around with more enthusiasm, and his dorsal fin, which had been clamped down for a few days, is flying high...what there is left of it. The white spot on his pectoral fin seems to have diminished somewhat, as well.

The other lfs was also out of Jungle Fungus Eliminator. I figured with all the stores in my area that were listed as dealers that ONE would have it. There must be a run of fungus at the moment. I'm sticking with the Maroxy/Maracyn treatment, especially since he is looking better already.

He's still eating up a storm. How happy we are to see some improvement. We're hoping it continues. Thanks again, Jenny!

More updates to come...Red says thanks, too!

Margaret

[Celura]

So how's the little man doing? :)

[moboe]

Hi Jenny, and thanks for asking after Red.

He's still swimming and eating away, in his 1g quarantine tank. He's had 3 doses of Maracyn/Maroxy, and I've changed 50% of the water once so far. I also added 1/2 tsp. more salt when I did the water change...hope that was right (I added 1 tsp when I set up the q tank.)

His dorsal fin stands up now, and is no longer clamped down as it had been doing during his last days in the 6g. It is about 3/4 rotted away, but hasn't gotten any worse since I started your Maracyn/Maroxy treatment.

His tail fin is no longer, save for a few rays (is that what you call the clear stems that stick out?) and some white stuff attached to them. He lost a few of those remaining rays over the weekend, so now his tail fin area has a few rays sticking out at the top, and then nothing below...just a stump where his body ends. I was discouraged to see the rays fall out (I saw one of them fall out when we made a swift turn while swimming) but hope it is just part of the healing/regrowth process.

The white ball of fungus on his pectoral fin is completely gone!

My plan has been to continue the Maracyn/Maroxy treatment through Friday (that will make a total of 2 days of Maracyn alone, and 8 days of Maracyn/Maroxy). After that, I wasn't sure what to do next. I know that if his tail will grow back, it will take a long while. How long should I keep him quarantined? The 6g is still cycling (it seems to be taking its own sweet time), so I'm in no hurry to put him in there. After Friday, should I, if I can finally find it or order it, start a JFE treatment? Basically, how will I know if I should still be treating him with medicine and/or salt, or just keeping his water clean? Also, ultimately his permanent home should be the 6g with the cories. I'm pretty sure I cannot use the salt with the cories...is that right?

Thanks to your good advice Jenny, Red seems to be making it through this, thank goodness. How to proceed and what will happen next is what I'm anxious to find out!

Thanks again for your care and for helping us save Red. I've also checked out your Beautiful Betta forum. What a great resource!

Margaret

[moboe]

Today's Red update...

All the rays from his tail fin have fallen out. He now had just a stump for a tail. His dorsal fin seems to be fusing back together...wonderful to see! I hope his tail fin will begin to grow back, even without the rays...

Still continuing treatment...

[johnnyxxl]

I hope they grow back I have seen fish have fins grow back and sometimes not.