Shopping for First Tank

[Gotcha38]

Hey everyone. I'm new to the hobby and comming from a rural area I have very limited choices in petstores. I went to one of the three local stores yesterday to shop for a tank and supplies, but several alarms were going off in my head when I was talking to the salesman. Here are some questions that have come to mind:

1) The store sells tanks seperately and in packaged deals. I am looking for a 20-30 gallon tank because I'm a nOOb at this whole thing. The stores 29 gallon package its somewhere arround $260. This includes a basic stand, glass tank, filter,heater, 4 bags of gravel, $20 in fake plants, the top and lights (its like a half plastic holder & half glass), a vacume thing, and maybe a testing kit i think. Does this sound reasonable?

2) I've read on here that the gravel at the bottom of the tank should be ~ 1 in? The I asked the salesman if the 4 bags would be enough to give me a good 1in of coverage and he said, "No, more like 1/4 in. Thats really all you need. Just enough to hold the plants down." Comments?

3) In his sales pitch he said that tank maitnence was only a montly thing. This seemed to be way off from what I've been hearing on here. The board makes it out to be more of a weekly if not daily schedule?

4)When he said that $20 of fake plants is included I asked if I could use that money for real plants instead and he told me that "You shouldn't use real plants from the start. Its better to cycle the tank first and then put them in." This seems to be contradictory to what I read in the plants forum. From what I've read it seems that cycling is made easier by having the plants in the tank. I'm not interested in any major highmaitnence planting schemes just some lowlight plants.

I have some other questions in mind but I'll wait to hear responces on this to see what my next questions will be. I know that my intentions with the tank will be a factor in the answers so here goes. All I'm planning on is a 20-30 gallon freshwater lowlight planted tank with some smaller colorful fish. All questions and comments are welcomed. Thanks everyone!

[Mantis737]

I have that entire setup, a better filter, better light, nicer plants and a way CHEAPER price.
29g
versa top w/ 24 inch light
Whisper 40 filter
100 watt tronic heater
Custom made cabinet stand
Lots of fake plants

150 bucks

I live in Michigan and can arrange to get anywhere in Michigan or norther ohio.

Let me know what u think, its all brand new!

Sorry I just saw that u lived in SC. We can arrange for it to be shipped, but it might be expensive I am not sure.

[Cearbhaill]

1. "Package" deals are rarely your best option- IMO they include unnecessary and/or substandard items that you will immediately need to upgrade or replace entirely.

Do you have any ideas on what type fish you plan on keeping?
I'd research things a bit longer until you are able to pick out a filter (for example) that suits your needs instead of whatever a shop slaps together to get rid of old stock.

2. Again- what type fish are you interested in? Substrate choices are very individual. Plan on live plants? Goldfish? Loaches or other burrowing fish? Browse some fish photos until you find a fish you can't live without- and work from there.

3. Daily interaction with any live creatures you are responsible for is always a good idea especially in the initial stages. After you get to be an old pro you can skip steps, but not at the beginning.

4. I'm a live plant fan also. I throw in everything at the beginning and get more of the plants that work and don't worry about those that don't. Different folks do it differently- but plants sure help a cycle IMO.

Just keep reading everything you can get hold of. The more you study before buying that first item the more likely you are to get everything right the first time. Once you purchase something your choices can get pretty limited in areas you didn't know existed.

You'll do fine- you're already ahead of the pack just by asking about these first steps!

[RHJ]

1. "Package" deals are rarely your best option- IMO they include unnecessary and/or substandard items that you will immediately need to upgrade or replace entirely
I agree. Instead you could buy the tank (and perhaps gravel)locally and get everything else on the internet ( Big Als for example).

[Gotcha38]

Thanks for the replys Cearbhaill and RHJ. I assumed that the package deal wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. But I don't have any experience to consider so I am relying on yours.

I really don't know what fish I have to choose from. I saw some betas, and brightly colored tetras at the store that I was partial to, but any brightly colored fish would be enough to make me happy. If you guys know of some websites you could recomend that have pictures and tell which other fish they work well with, that would be a big help.

As far as my opinions on substrates I am very partial to the natural sand look, but I'm thinking that this would be a little harder to clean so natural stones and pebbles. Something like these tanks, http://aquafiend.plantedtank.net/tanks.html , is what I'm looking for. Natural stones, drift wood, live plants. (If the owner of these tanks reads this, PM me, I have plenty of questions. These are awesome tanks.)

I read that the filter you choose needs to be rated at something like 6-7 times the gallons of your tank. But thats the extent of my knoledge.

If you could recomend some reputeable online stores I would greatly appereciate it also. Thanks everyone for the informative replys. :)

[cynicalcriminal]

I'm as new to the site as you are .. and am in pretty much the same boat .... looking for a good deal on a tank, and deciding what I want to aim for in the end.

There are probably alot better sites out there for looking up fish, but I've been using Dr Foster & Smith's Live Aquaria (http://liveaquaria.com/) to get a good look at what individual fish may look like, care specifics like PH needed and such, and a rough price that I'd end up having to spend.


Used tanks (I'm watching the local paper and want ads) are far far cheaper than anything a local petstore would have, and if you can find a cheap used tank (that holds water perfectly and is in good shape) you can get ideas and product reviews from people here ... and order online each filter or heater you'd need. Cheaper, better quality, and better peace of mind that you're not getting sub-standard parts or getting ripped off.

[TKOS]

If you have the room I would suggest the 33 gallon tank. You want to get the biggest surface area possible to house the most fish possible. The 29 gallon is a tall tank that has the same surface area as a 20 gallon tank.

I would also suggest that you go to the store and see what fish you are really interested in, make a list and then see what sort of requirements you might need. For example if you want goldfish or african cichlids then you will probably not want to have a planted fish tank so the stock lighting will be fine.

[Gotcha38]

Could you explain how a 20 and 29 have the same amount of surface area? I'm trying to get it but I just can't figure it out.

Is it also true that with anything over a 10 gal, you need to buy an actual stand? And the reasoning behind this is?

[zin]

Tanks/water weights alot, more then most think imo.

a good rough estimate that gives room for error is 10lbs/gallon

most household furniture isnt ment to hold that much and can become unstable.

surface area is the square amount of area on either the bottem of the tank or the top,

a exageration would be a tank that is 2ft deep and 3ft long, if its 1ft high or 1000ft high it would have the same surface area

[TKOS]

Yes, sorry about that. But a 20 gallon and 29 gallon (or 28) have the same foot print. The others are just taller. As for the stand it would depend on what you want to place it on. I have a 20 gallon tank on a home made coffee table and it is perfectly stable. I have a 10 gallon tank on a store bought shelf unit that has shelves cabale of holding 150 lbs each.

You can always build your own stand as well, instead of buying one. You just have to know the weight of the tank full of water and them make sure whatever you place it on can handle the weight. In some cases this also means the floor the stand will be on.

For safety sake I like to plan for 10 lbs per gallon of tank. This gives a slightly higher than actual weight.

[The Inspector]

I would go as large as you can afford as larger tanks are more stable than smaller tanks, this gives you some room for the errors you will inevitably make (we all do/did/will). As others have said, you're ahead of the pack by doing some reasearch first.

Another thing to consider is placement of the tank, not only ion realation to windows, walls, heat/cooling vents and such, but alos in relation to your floor joists. It's better, if possible, to place the tank perpendicuar to your joists so you have more than one helping hold that weight. Course, if your house is built on a slab that point is moot.

[Gotcha38]

Ok, I knew that they would have the same footprint, but when you said surface area I thought you meant glass sides included.

So I guess I will be getting a premade stand so that I don't have to worry about the well being of my dresser.

I've been looking at fish and what really catches my eye is the Tetra family in general. They seem to stay small and are the most colorful. So probably a small school of one type of those.

Then I was thinking one of those small catfish looking fish that just kinda chill on the bottom and look cool.

Maybe a silver dollar something or another fish I saw at the pet store. Any questions comments on my choices?

Why don't you guys give me some names of the smaller freshwater fish that hold a special place in you guys tanks.;) Fish that are good for a 29-30 something gallon planted tank.

[TKOS]

Many of the smaller tetras are grwat choices. Neons, cardinals, glolights, sliver tips, emporer, head and tail light, lemon. Lots of great choices for a planted tank. I think you are also looking for Cory catfish which are perfect community bottom dwellers.

I would stay away from Silver Dollars due to their love of eating plants. But maybe look at some dwarf gouramis. Great fun and can be very pretty. You could put 3 in a tank that size as long as it is planted.

[Cearbhaill]

Almost any of the tetras can be gorgeous in the right setting- and to me that means in numbers.
What I would suggest that you avoid is the "one of everything" syndrome. Not that you are headed there- I just really prefer to see fish in groups of like.
Maybe a school of tetras, a couple of bottom dwelling catfish/otos/maybe one bristlenose pleco, and a male betta for surface interest and color?

I have a scad of ghost shrimp in my planted tank and they are the favorite of most folks as far as watching antics go. They're cheap and they don't add too much to the bioload either- I expect they'll get eaten as my discus grow but as for now they are adorable!

[snakeskinner]

I think prettymuch everyone's saying the same things and you've got a good idea of what you're doing. You can spend a lot of money fast or you can budget yourself. It all depends on what you want. Most kits sell you a bunch of junk you don't need, it all depends on the place and the parts. This is where I disagree with most others on this post. Being that you are just starting and need prettymuch everything, that kit (depending on what filter, light, etc.) sounds pretty reasonable. I just purchased a 29 gallon setup over the weekend. I already had a stand, filter, airline, airpump and any supplies, net, etc. and spent about $250 at Petsmart which is usually fairly reasonable. The tank with lighthood cost $70. We did however opt for expensive decorations, design background, etc. I am inexperienced at real planting and we like the "not so natural" look in most our tanks. I personally like to well overfilter the tank so I can push the fish limits and have had pretty good luck. For example, I put a Penguin 330 on my 29 gallon tank. go to www.bigalsonline.com and get as many of the things as you can. Unfortunately I found them too late and have spent a lot of money on things I could have gotten cheaper. Things like decorations, filter, etc. at the least. Make sure the light hood you get has a fluorescent bulb because incandescent bulbs get way too hot in my experiences. A HOB (hang on back) filter is probably the best route for you and I personally like the Marineland penguin/emperor series with the bio-wheels. I realize they are not as popular due to the way the filters are placed but they are fairly easy to setup for a beginner, easy to maintain and work very efficiently. Some people have made the comment that they are noisy but they must have air in the filter or something because I can't hear the filter running over the airpump humming on mine. I have two penguins and two emperors so I don't think mine's just quieter than everyone else. It hasn't been mentioned yet but sand isn't a good idea for substrate being that it can create pockets of lethal gases trapped inside the sand. You can probably set up several small schools of tetras and a few cory catfish and have a great looking tank. Don't let everyone tell you tetras will only survive in large groups. I set up my 55 gallon with about a 8 or more groups of 3 tetras per variety and they thrive just fine and all intermingle together. Maybe if you had them in with more aggressive fish you might need the numbers. I don't seem to have much luck with rummynose tetras though. I'm not sure if they do need a larger group or my water's just too hard for them. I agree with the reading and looking for fish. Did you browse the fish at the stores you went to? Look around before buying anything, you might find a fish you can't live without but you can't add to the tank because it isn't compatible with any of the fish you already bought. I've run into this manytimes before. Many fish don't get along with others and unless you are aware of this beforehand, there can be much carnage. Watch Ebay and your local papers, garage sales, etc. You can pick up stuff dirt cheap at times. I really wish I lived on one of the coasts at times. I see stuff selling on ebay so cheap it makes me cry but I just can't get it to me here in Oklahoma. have fun and good luck. KYle

[Gotcha38]

Originally posted by TKOS
Many of the smaller tetras are great choices. Neons, cardinals, glolights, sliver tips, emporer, head and tail light, lemon. Lots of great choices for a planted tank. I think you are also looking for Cory catfish which are perfect community bottom dwellers.

TKOS, this is bassically what I had in mind, but this shrimp thing sounds interesting.

Cedar, I was also thinking of getting a beta for my tank, but I didn't know if tetras or those Cory cats were bad about fin nipping. I don't want a finless beta.

Snakeskinner, I was leaning towards some kind of natural pebbles or something for substrate. I just don't think that a bunch of neon green and orange rocks would look to well in the tank I have in mind.

Thanks for reccomending Big Al's I think I'll check there and see what kind of deals they have and start outfitting myself. Maybe I'll move on up to a longer tank instead of just a tall 20gal like TKOS reccomended.

[snakeskinner]

some tetras are fin nippers like serpae tetras. I think maybe black skirts and lemon tetras can also be fin nippers. Just check into them on the internet. Bettas can be bullies to larger fish like mollies, guppies, etc. but seem to ignore small fish like tetras, at least in my experiences with them. They seem to vary tremendously on individuals. I see lots of people with them in community tanks but I don't seem to have that kind of luck. As for the substrate, I tend to go for a brown/tan rock to look somewhat natural and then spread some shells for looks. Our latest tank we used a blackish/brown rock with some scattered shells to try and show off our congo tetras more since they are pearly white and kind of disappear into the lighter substrates. for most tetras and such, the tank layout doesn't matter that much so go for the looks and surface area for more fish. Angels, discus, etc. need taller tanks due to their height. fish like danio's need more length to swim back and forth. Kyle

[some_guy]

agree, i actually think that you should get the 29g and after you get the hang of it than upgrade. i actually upgraded from a 10g to a 55g and i got the 55g about 3-4 weeks ago and im already thinkin about upgrading to a 125g. i, well my ma and dad surprised me, with another oscar (red) so i plan on getting that 125 fast. as for your fish, they are very sutible i would look and search a little more, but i really like the way you ask so many questions to find out about and keep your fish safe. the 29g sounds like a good thing to get for starters.

[Gotcha38]

Snakeskinner, Check out the link I posted in my first post and you'll see what I'm kinda looking for in a substrate. See if thats kinda the result you got, and if it is you can give me some pointers on how to go about it. I'll also check into the tendacys of my tetras before i buy them. I've heard good things about bettas in community tanks as long as the other fish don't look so much like bettas, long fins and such.

Some_guy, wow, thats alot of tanks. Did you keep them all? The problem is that I'm kinda limited on space. I am almost certain that I'm gonna get something in the 30's long range. That should fill up the space I have perfectly and still be large enough to hold me over until I get my own place.

Thanks for all the comments and susgestions guys, keep 'em commin. Any other good ideas for me?:D

Edit: I was looking up some information on Banjo and Cory cats and found this post, http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25604&perpage=15&highlight=Banjo&pagenumber=2 This just makes me want to use sand more so. I think I can handle stirring my sand once a week. That would take what, 10 secconds? Read the thread and comment.

[snakeskinner]

the top left and middle left photos are similar to what I have in most my tanks. One has more white and another more black. I want to do a planted tank, just never have taken the initiative. I like the look of the natural tank but I also like the look of some of the decorations and my wife likes them too. kyle

[Gotcha38]

Kyle, You could always do both. Have real plants and you're plastic sand castle.

Another quick question for the pros. So tank stands. Do all of them have that big hole in the top? I'm assuming that since most of the ones I've seen do, it must serve some kind of purpose. Anyone care to shed some light on the subject? I'm asking because in my design plan that I've been working out in my head, I plan on using some slate and drift wood. I just don't know how good I feel about having all that weight over a big hole. Should I be worried or not?

I am really excited about this tank guys! Thanks so much for your help!

[Cearbhaill]

The stands are built that way to accomodate the tanks that run plumbing to a second tank (usually a sump) underneath.
Don't worry about the weight on the glass- my reef tank has 100 lb. sand, 200 lb. rock plus the water and it hasn't collapsed yet :D

[Gotcha38]

Originally posted by Cearbhaill
The stands are built that way to accomodate the tanks that run plumbing to a second tank (usually a sump) underneath.
Don't worry about the weight on the glass- my reef tank has 100 lb. sand, 200 lb. rock plus the water and it hasn't collapsed yet :D

Thats good to know!

I've sketched a general layout of what I'm gonna go for. I'll take a picture and post it up later. I also went to a bookstore and checked out some of the books on fish today and have almost decided how I'm gonna populate the tank. I'll get a list tomorrow. Things are comming along nicely.

[tomm10]

I coming into this late so it seems like you're getting a lot of good advice already. Since I'm also a big fan of the natural looking tank I thought I'd share a bit of my experience/advice.

Sand is really not that much more difficult to care for than gravel IME. Go to Home Depot and buy washed, screened playsand. Southdown is one brand and Quikrete is another. Southdown is actually made with some crushed coral which should raise the KH of your water. Read up a little on water chemistry (http://www.tomgriffin.com/aquasource/hardwater.shtml) to better understand what that can do for you. Its really cheap (like $3-4 for a 50lb bag) and looks great in the tank. The biggest difference in maintanence is that you can't just push it around with the vaccuum since it will suck up the sand. Instead you just pass the vaccuum over it.

Petsmart has some great, natural looking, fake wood pieces. The nice part about the fake stuff is that it has no effect on water chemistry. If you get real driftwood it will leach tannins into your water. While this isn't an awful thing it will alter your water chemistry a little and could temporarily darken your water a bit. Again, not harmful but something to know. Some fish, like most plecos, actually require driftwood to eat.

I've had a lot of good luck with live plants and IME you can add them from day one. If you fishless cycle then you will want to wait since adding plants while fishless cycling can cause heavy algae growth. Otherwise, plants are helpful in taking some of the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates out of the water.

One thing to know about plants is that they will require better lighting than the standard hood can provide. I was able to retrofit my tank hood with a 55w Power Compact Fluorescent fixture from AH Supply for about $70 and that has been great for my plants in my 29.

You can see a couple of pics of my tanks if you follow the My Tanks link in my sig.

[Gotcha38]

Hey Tom, that 29 is almost just what I had envisioned for myself, that looks really good. Its also good to hear someone else is using sand with no problems.

I think that I am going to have good luck with the plants too, but I am gonna try with the stock lighting before I upgrade. There are a few plants that fit my needs that are 'susposed' to grow in low lighting conditions. If that really works then there will be no need for me to spend the extra cash just yet.

I had seen the fake drift wood on another site, but it wasn't very pleasing on the eyes. It just looked like some one chopped firewood and stuck it in a fish tank. I'll check the local Petsmart and see what kind of selection they have. I was worried about finding drift wood but now I think I have that one solved. With plants grow on the fake stuff tho?

[tomm10]

Make sure the plants you get require low light and you should be okay with the stock light for now. It won't be long before you start wanting those light hogging plants though :D

Look in Petsmart under the fish tanks. They're on a low shelf with the gravel not in the aisle with the decorations and miniature castles.

AFAIK plants that will anchor themselves to driftwood won't really care if its fake or real. I don't believe it roots "into" the wood but rather it wraps roots around the wood. I'm only guessing at this since I know its possible to anchor those same plants to rocks as well. Not all plants work this way so make sure you're getting the right plant.

Tom

[Aqualung]

I would suggest looking into at least a twin tube setup for the lighting. You can find them online for $40 (plus shipping costs). I say this because I tried using the stock lighting on my 29 gal. and my plants didn't do well. Even the java ferns didn't seem to do good under 20 watts. With 40 watts I'm hoping they will do much better.

Read the thread "Newly Planted Tank Problems" in the aquatic plant section if you want to read more about my experiences.

And good luck to you btw!

[Gotcha38]

Good Morning.

Went to Books-A-Million yesterday to sit down and see what fish I had a fancy for. Heres a general list of the fish that I found particularly pleasing. I don't know if any of these guys are really rare or anything or even if the stores arround here carry them, but this is what I liked.

Tetra's - Cardinal, Bloodfin, Head and Tailight. The book said that Bloodfin Tetra's do well by themselves or in small groups, so if I can find them maybe 2-3, then a small group of the Cardinals or Head and Tailight.

Danio's- The Leopard Danio really caught my attention. Otherwise Pearl or Zebras will do me just fine. A small shoal of these too?

Betta- I've got my heart set on having a blue or mostly blue betta. Just one Betta unless I get a female too.

Gourami- I really like the Dwarf (I think) Gourami with the blue stripes. And the Honey Gourami were pretty awesome as well. I have no idea on what kind of numbers these guys like to live in.

Corys- Network Corys, anyone ever heard of them? Well I thought they looked awesome. The Albino and Peppered Corys were also cool. 3 or 4

Banjo Cat- I really want a Banjo also. Just because I think their awesome. 1

Lake Katubu Rainbowfish- I have never heard of this fish and I'm pretty sure that I've never seen them but according to the book they are fairly hardy. It also reccomended buying a M/F pair for companionship. 2

Those are what I saw and liked. I really don't know the numbers that well or what fish get along with other fish well. I think that most of these are generally good community fish, maybe with the exception of the Betta. What do you think? Too many schooling fish? Not enough of one kind? Some are hard to find? Opinions on which fish I should cycle with? Lets hear the opinions.

I checked out DrFosterSmith.com, and AHsupply.com for lights. After looking at AHsupply I realized just how little I know about lights. I'm gonna stick with the stock lighting and try and grow some Crypts, Anubias, Java Fern, maybe some E. Tenellus, and see what happens. If something doesn't work out I'll get a Striplight to go on top of the glass front piece on the top I'm gonna get.

I'm gonna look at filtration and check out the Marineland Penguin/Emperor series with the Biowheels, like Kyle reccomended. Anyone else have good experiences with filters? Is there some specific type of filter I should stay away from because of the Plants or fish that I have? Hang off the Back, biological, mechanical, etc. I need some help here. Thanks for all the help guys. :)

[Cearbhaill]

It's all about taste.
I love everything you've listed with the exception of any danio- I find them to be so hyperactive that I can't rest. I use my tanks to relax so don't keep anything with that extreme amount of movement, but I'm sure there are folks who just love them.

Filters are to some degree a matter of funds- I have Eheim cannisters on my planted tank and find them excellent- but they are pricey. I also use biowheel filters in other tanks and am happy with them also.
Are you going to be using CO2?
That will influence your filter choice.

And I would cycle without fish- it's easier, less stressful on you, and certainly kinder to the fish.

[Aqualung]

I don't have experience with keeping bettas and gouramis together, but I'm not sure if that would work out. They might be ok, but a lot depends on the personalites of the individual fish. I'd go for either a betta or a dwarf gourami (or two) if it were me.

It would probably be best to go for one good sized school of either tetras or rainbowfish or danios, or maybe two small schools........all the fish you listed are nice fish, but if you get them all you'll be looking at an overstocking situation.

I had a pair of salt and pepper cories years ago in my community tank. They seemed happy, but from what I understand they are much happier in groups of 4 or more.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gotcha38]

Cedar, I think that I am kinda partial to the Penguin hang-off-the back filters, w/ the biowheel. They seem to have a good reputation along with being fairly simple. No Co2. I'm keeping this simple.

I had similar feelings about the schooling fish. I knew that I wouldn't have enough room for decent sized schools of all the fish so I will probably stick with the Cardinal or Head and Taillight Tetras. The danios are a little active for me.

The rainbow fish on the otherhand were reccomended to keep in 2's so I would still like to hear other opinons on this.

Does anyone else think that the Betta and Gourami will cause a situation? The Honey Gourami were described as very docile and perfect for community tanks so I was hoping that they would kinda steer clear of the Betta.

I was hoping for 3-4 Corys to make a small group as well. If theres room. This is probably going to start looking like a 33 or so long tank. I might be able to get a good deal on something used and a bit bigger although. Maybe a 55, ;) . Keep the opinons comming guys. Also, please reccomend some more filters.

[Gotcha38]

Ok, I did some searching and I don't know if the hanging filter will be a good idea or not because it might cause too much surface turbulance and release the small amounts of CO2 I acctually have.

And I'm going to just go with the Betta instead of the Gourami. There are doccumented cases of them not getting along well. I don't really know why maybe the Gourami are too active or to big for a Betta to feel comfortable about.

So any more opinoins on fish choices or ideas about what equipment or anything I should get? I'm gonna check into this package deal one more time tomorrow just to see what brand of filter it is and etc.

[Aqualung]

I'm currently using the HOB filter on my 29 gal. that came with the cheapo package deal. It's kinda soon to tell, but my plants seem to be doing well under my new 40 watt lighting. Much better than they did under half the wattage! I just read an excellent tip posted by Richer in the plants forum. He said to slip a sponge over the outflow part of the filter to reduce surface agitation. I think I'll give that a try, it's an excellent idea.

I think a betta, a school or two of tetras, and some small cories would make a great tank.

I'm in the middle of trying to decide which fish to stock my tank with. Right now I have two red honey gouramis and they are doing great. I have no shortage of ideas, it's narrowing down my choices that's tough ;)

[Gotcha38]

Hows that cheap HOB filter you're using working out? Thats kinda why I was straying away from the package deal I was offered because I didn't wanna just end up with a stores overstock. I'm getting the tank this week though. My last question is just a debate I'm having with myself on weather or not to do fishless cycling or just cycle with one of my schools of tetras. Comments?

[Anne L.]

Don't go with a packaged deal if you can help it. That's what I did for my little ten gallon and it was a big pain in the rear.

I ended up taking the hood/light back as there was no glass between the water and the lights and getting a really nice one for free from the store (Petcetera). The kit came with an undergravel filter which I didn't use and bought a HOB style.

The heater just bought it last week so I replaced it with a better style for $30.00. Good thing it wasn't a cold day or my fish might have been history.

I could have saved myself money by buying everything separately, but hey, what does a newbie know?

I'm sure the manager at Petcetera never wants to see my face again after all of this.

Just my two cents.

[Aqualung]

The filter seems to be doing it's job quite well so far. The water is clear, and now my ammonia and nitrite levels are down to zero. I think the extra lighting for the plants helped with this as well.

I'd have to agree that it would be better in the long run to buy the supplies yourself, instead of going for the package deal. If you have the funds for it, buying the higher quality equipment would be worth it.

One advantage of doing a planted tank is that the ammonia and nitrite spikes involved with the cycling prcess are greatly reduced. So, once your plants get established you could start slowly adding fish. Good lighting plays an important role here, as I discovered the hard way. With 20 watts, my plants were dying and decaying........adding to the ammonia instead of reducing it. Doing daily water changes kept my fish happy until I got on the right track. Now everything seems to be just fine.

[tomm10]

Originally posted by Gotcha38
Ok, I did some searching and I don't know if the hanging filter will be a good idea or not because it might cause too much surface turbulance and release the small amounts of CO2 I acctually have.


Gotcha, this is really a function of water level. If you are diligent about keeping your tank's water level high enough, it will cut down on surface disturbance. Its only when the water level gets low that the HOB filter starts acting like a waterfall and causes a lot of disturbance.

Tom

[Gotcha38]

Wow, today was a real eye opener. The first shop I went to is billed as a complete fish supply store. They were "susposed" to have everything, but today man a different store blew that one out of the water.This place was awesome. They had everything! I got to see some different sized tanks and stuff, and a huge assortment of fish. They had alot of different substrates but no Eco-Complete.

Shopping arround the 30 gal Long tanks were $70. I forget what brand they were. A decent stand was $129 ( Waaaaay more than what I bargained for.), and the tops they offered for it were $43. How do these prices sound? I'm going to get my penguin filter from BigAl's, maybe a stand too. I saw the 55 Gals and I alllllmost decided on getting one of those but I just think that the expense would be way to much for me to cover. I'm doing some calculating and I'll decide.

[tomm10]

Originally posted by Gotcha38
I saw the 55 Gals and I alllllmost decided on getting one of those but I just think that the expense would be way to much for me to cover. I'm doing some calculating and I'll decide.

There's always the classifieds :D . If you are sure you want in on this hobby and its not just a passing craze to you, get the biggest tank you can. It will be easier to care for (more water volume=more stbale water chemistry) and leave you more options/room for fish.

If you shop used tanks, stands, and hoods you can find some very decent deals.

[Gotcha38]

I'm scanning the classifieds but there hasn't been a single thing offered for sale. So the prices the store had sound reasonable or am I just being a tight wad?

[vaheelsfan]

Shopping arround the 30 gal Long tanks were $70. I forget what brand they were. A decent stand was $129 ( Waaaaay more than what I bargained for.), and the tops they offered for it were $43

All of that adds up to $242 dollars. I don't think that's a very good deal, as at the lfs where I live you can get a new 29 gallon tank with a hood and a wooden stand with a cabinet on the bottom for around $140. The difference in the two is enough to get a really nice filter and heater on your tank. I live in a city in a rural area that only has two lfs. Their only competition is Wal-Mart, which has a terrible selection and lots of sick fish and a PetCo that is about 45 minutes away. So they don't really have a reason to keep the prices low as most businesses don't give you good deals just to be nice, they're there to make money. So, no, I don't think you're being a tightwad. I don't know what part of South Carolina you live in, but if there is an area within a day's drive with a lot of pet stores, I'd take a day and go see if you can get better deal. Spending twenty or thirty dollars on gas to save a hundred or more dollars isn't a bad deal, in my opinion.

[Gotcha38]

Yea, So after a little more shopping arround one store offered a 55 gallon handmade 3/8's inch glass tank with stand, glass top, 40watt strip light, rocks, net, filter and the rest for a clean $500. Then I went to the more commercial store and they are going with the 55 Gallon generic tank, a solid wooden stand, and glass top, and i think one 40 watt light for $270. The rest shouldn't add up to $500, infact the store manager told me that they would make it be less.

I'm lovin this new store. The fish guy there is really knoeldeable, albeit a little old school, but cool. Not to mention he offered me free plants to stock the tank with. So, I'm going with the more commercial store. Tank should be at the house this week.