Post Blackout Algae problems

nanahachi

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Mar 25, 2003
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This is a followup to my previous thread “Persistant Green Algae Problem” (found here http://www.aquariacentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23333 )


[I have a 20g long, freshwater planted tank, with mostly annubias and Java fern, 5 white clouds and 5 or 6 Amano shrimp]


About week ago I scrubbed off algae, did a 50% water change, and then blacked out my tank for 4 (or 5, i can't recall) days. On Sunday 4/3/04 I then pulled out any plants with algae on them and did a light bleach dip (1:19 mix) and scrubbed off any remaining algae, washed them thoroughly and returned them to the tank. I followed with a 50% water change, then blacked out the tank for another 48 hours.

That basically brings us up to 2 days ago, 4/6/04 (plz forgive my memory, there's a lot going on right now), and I turned the light back on and have 2 Hagen CO2 system things running. Until today, I couldn't find where I placed my Green Light stump remover, so I only just added it now. I am only dosing what Tom Barr recommended in my previous thread (I’ve quoted Tom below).

My current levels are as follows:
ph = 7.2 (it’s still high….)
kh = 4
NO2 = less than 0.1

I accidentally ordered the wrong test kit, thus I don’t have any NO3 levels yet. The correct kit is on its way…

My 65W compact fluorescent is on for 7 hours a day, and my plants are pearling pretty nicely.

So as of now, the light and CO2 have been going for 2 days, and the green algae is quickly building up on the glass (err acrylic) again. I’ll try and snap a few pics and see if they turn out, and if so, I’ll post them.

I’ve removed the HOB that I had on the tank, have increased the CO2 by adding that second Hagen canister, and have changed my fert mix….I’m really at a loss. I can’t get a plecco, because the last one I had chomped away at my plants with disastrous results. Do Chinese Algae Eaters or Siamese Algae Eaters eat algae off of the glass or do they stick more to plant surfaces, and will they bother my very shy Amano shrimp?

Should I add some more Amanos? They’ve never really done much to control my algal explosions, but then again, I only have 5 or 6 (it’s impossible to count them all at once, with all the hiding places in my tank…)

Another question: I am only using my XP1 canister filter now, and I’m wondering if I need to change the media arrangement inside. I have ½ noodles, ½ stars on the bottom layer, and above that I have the carbon pouch (which is extremely old and probably useless) and the fine white gauze/sponge at the very top. Should I have some sort of media that would control for phosphates, as the Foster&Smith 10 algae busting tips recommends?

Sorry for my lack of knowledge, I really appreciate all of your help.
Thanks everyone


Originally posted by plantbrain
N-

You do not need to add baking soda, SeaChem Eq etc, nor do you ever need RO/DI water(soft water) for any plant that I am aware of.

LA water is fairly hard so adding KH/GH stuff is not needed.
So do a 50% water change and add:
1/4 teaspoon KNO3(2x aweek)
1 drop of Fleet(2-3x aweek)
5mls of flourish 2-3x aweek
Crank to the CO2 up HIGH, 20ppm to 30ppm.
 
Your CO2 ppm is around 8ppm. Very low. Any way of getting more CO2 into the system?
You have a 20 gal. tank with 65 watts of CF lighting. Very high.
You need a relatively high plant mass and good CO2 to hold the algae in check.
You need to have these numbers on your ferts. P - .5-1.0, N - 5 - 10ppm, K close to 20ppm. Traces, as Tom suggests in his posts.
With that wattage it is important to dose properly, have a large plant mass, and if possible to increase the CO2 to get everything growing as well as possible.
Ottos(5 would be good in that tank) will help with the algae, but the plants growing well is the biggest factor.
You have a small fish load so your nitrates will probably test low unless you have it coming in your tap water. If this turns out to be the case(low nitrates) you can dose a little extra KNO3 and pick up some to the needed K when dosing it.
Test your P and N levels and post them for us.
Tell us about your plants.....what kinds and how many?
I would get a few bunches of Water Sprite and Egeria and let it float to shade the tank some and fight the algae for nutrients. Then get the N,P,K and Traces and dose for proper content.
There is no need to 'control' the phosphates until you know what the levels are. You need to balance P with the other nutrients, not remove it unless it's over 1.0 - 1.5.
I put the sponges on the bottom layer, and the stars/noodles on the upper layers in my XP2's. Works well for me. Lose the carbon. Unless you're removing medications or polishing the water, it is useless.

Len
 
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hey len
thanks for always coming to my aid.

I WISH i could add more CO2, but I don't know what to do...I'm a student right now, so I can't really afford a real pressurized set up...perhaps this summer when I'm working. I really can't believe that 2 Hagen cannisters aren't enough.

I will order a P test kit to ship along with my N test kit (it hasnt shipped yet). It will probably be a week at least before they arrive.

My plant stock right now:
6 annubias
3 java fern (with 2 or 3 tiny separate growths)
2 big amazon swords (one isn't doing well)
1 vallisenaria (sp?)

[I will add some pics tomorrow]

I will go to my LFS and see if they have any Water Sprite and Egeria as you mentioned.

ok, i figured out what ottos are (Ottocinclus Cats) but now I need to make sure they wont freak out my shrimp. My Amanos are my pride and joy, and frankly I'd rather build my tank around them than the plants (don't flame me). the time I added the plecco, and before that zebra dainos, the shrimp went into hiding, which severely pissed me off.

Everyone, any and all help is always welcome.
thanks again!!
 
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Agreed with djlen, your CO2 is much too low. Instead of using the reactor that comes with the hagen kit, position the CO2 line so that the bubbles get sucked into your canister. That should dissolve nearly 100% of the CO2 that is produced and should help a great deal.

HTH
-Richer
 
Algae busting

I'd throw in some riccia. It'll do the same thing as the watersprite, but you'll be able to sell it for $10/wad on aquabid. :D Most of your plants are pretty slow growing, except the val, but one val does not a forest make!

I'd suggest didilpis, dwarf sag, l repens, and other plants in that class with your level of light.
 
If you are still using the hagen containers for your yeast mixture. I suggest replacing them with a 1 gal jug. Then you can get your co2 cranking. I tried 2 two liter bottles and I still didnt have very good results. With the 1 gal jug I maintain a co2 level of 18 to 22 ppm.
 
Joey,
I replied to your PM regarding a pressurized system, but Richer's idea combined with 750t's idea for better results with DIY, will get you through this period when you are 'cash-flow challenged'.:)
None of these DIY CO2 gadgets they are selling seem to work as well as a 2-liter bottle, set up right with sugar and yeast.
And as Richer says, if you run it through your cannister, you will get the kind of absorption your tank will need to attain the required 20-30ppm.
With the plants you now have and the light you now have, you will have a difficult time fending off algae. They are nice plants, but you need more stems and fast growing plants such as the ones previously mentioned to go along with your ferts and hopefully a more efficient CO2 system.

Len
 
gallon jug

I've got a gallon jug on my 55 and get 18ppm with it. It's backup right now until I can replace a broken needle valve. The trick is to wait until it starts slowing down, then decant most of the water, add sugar and water from the tank. The chlorine in tap water will kill the yeast. If you keep some of the culture it hardly dips in production and will be going strong by morning.

-Josh
 
Wow, thanks guys! I really appreciate your posting quickly.

Do you have any specific suggestions on how to run the CO2 line into the intake for the filter? Right now I have a cylindical sponge covering the intake to prevent excess particulate matter from entering the filter. I'll try to snap a pic of it later. Is it just a matter of pinching the air tube(s) and fitting them into the intake?

I have some space issues where this tank is located, I'm not sure I can squeeze in a 1G bottle nearby, but I'll see (and be plenty creative)

Josh, thanks for the CO2 tips, I'll try that

Today I will search for some of the plants mentioned, but feel free to name any other that come to mind


thanks again
 
Ok I have read just about every article on the web about co2 production. I have never seen anyone mention anything about chlorine killing yeast. But I have often wondered if this is a problem. Where did you get your info on this subject? Thanks Tim
 
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